Okay, the gloves are off. Let the fur fly


I would like to hear one single cogent technically accurate explanation of how a multi-way box speaker can be more musically accurate than single drivers or stats. As a speaker designer for more than 25 years, I have yet to hear an argument that holds water, technically. The usual response involves bass or treble extension, as if that is the overriding principle in music reproduction. My position is that any information lost or jumbled in the complex signal path of multi-way box speakers can never be recovered by prodigious bass response, supersonic treble extension, or copious numbers of various drivers. Louder,yes. Deeper,yes. Higher, maybe. More pleasing to certain people,yes. But, more musically revealing and accurate,no. I posted this because I know that it will surely elicit numerous defensive emotional responses. I am prepared to suffer slings and arrows from many directions. But, my question still remains. Can you technically justify your position with facts?
twl
All interesting from a "technical" point of view. Sometimes "technical" does not all add up in my experience. I have heard some very nice "box" speakers and worked on a few.

Ultimately I think the box is more a problem than the crossover. Drivers in boxes do not radiate power very equally. Linkwitz has done a lot of work on this and open baffle/dipole speakers. He says a lot of interesting stuff at his site and also has a decent crossover.

I understand the less is more theory and even am attracted to it in a way. But when I look at the typical circuits in even the simplest audio chain it is hard to believe that one last filter is going to bring ruin. You do not need a passive typical cheap crossover at the end of the line in any event to make several drivers work.

I do agree that the most popular and horrible speakers are all box speakers. Small ones too. Small boxes create all sorts of endless problems but they seem to be what folks want in their living room. The woodworking is easier and less expensive. The crossovers in most speakers under the 10k level can be dramatically improved for very little $$.

When you you look at the technical weaknesses of a cone with density and mass and mechanical problems (discussed above and elsewhere) you realize that everything is far from perfect. It does not matter is you have 1,3 or 6 drivers. If you are using a cone, even the best, it is very imperfect right from the start.

When you have one cone trying to recreate very complex music you also face certain problems with break up.

That being said I am beginning to love single drivers in non conventional enclosures. I think they are especially nice for folk/jazz. I am even thinking of trying to put together a system with the fewest parts possible just for the heck of it. SET-Single Driver of some sort. I m sure this has been done before. Any ideas or minimalist schematics out there?

Cheers,

The full range electrostat is still my favorite sounding speakers aka Soundlab , ML Clz and the Quad 989. No not perfect but low distortion - no moving cones - and the ML and Eros hybrids get criticized for not having a seemless crossover from woofer to panel. IMHO all 2 way / 3 way designs share the same situation and are indeed hybrids plus the addition of more distortion from cone movement and trying to match drivers .
Sean,

The Lamhorns use Lowthers or their equivalent. I went with a Lowther because the AER driver is 16 ohm and my amp doesn't have a 16 ohm tap. If you are looking to spend this kind of money, the Lamhorns should definitely be on your short list.

http://www.rlacoustique.com

Listener did a review in the current issue.
I think TWL is being a little disingenuous with his question here. He is obviously perfectly well aware (as are all of his fine respondents above) of the various "technical" advantages, disadvantages, and tradeoffs inherent in any of the schools of speaker design. It's just that he is insistent on maintaining that such perfectly legitimate issues as high and low frequency extension, freedom from dynamic compression, fidelity to absolute volume level, and dispersion characteristics and radiation pattern are somehow not as germane to musical "truth" as the qualities he values above these. What he cannot do is "prove" that the tradeoffs he prefers are any less "technically" deleterious to the musical signal than those he disfavors. When such real-world factors as size, cost, appearance, ease of placement, ease of system matching, and the likelihood of a good-sounding overall result are considered, multi-way cone-in-box speakers will often have the advantage. Advances in the applications of digital crossovers, built-in amplification, and unconventional enclosure designs (composite materials, computer-optimized shaping and damping) may further stretch TWL's "point".
Seems to me we are once again debating the question of listening to the sound versus listening to the music. I'll concede that good single-driver systems offer incremental improvements in midrange clarity and accuracy....but at the expense of constrained frequency spectrum and dynamic range. Alas, the reality of musical production is that frequencies DO extend way up high and way down low and to lop off both ends of the spectrum is to distort musical truth really badly. When you attentuate the sonority of six contrabasses pulling a unison low E, you're not merely emphasizing one part of the frequency spectrum over another, you're actually rewriting the music. You're no longer hearing what the composer intended you to hear.

In the same way, compression is not merely something one chooses to tolerate in the interest of midrange liquidity. It is a fundamental reordering of the dynamic structure of the composition, again violating the composer's intention.

Listen to Moussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain on a good single driver system and then on an equally good multi driver system. You'll see what I mean.

Multi-driver systems suffer multiple problems, as many on this thread have noted. In my view, however, they offer the best chance of realizing the composer's goal and the players' achievements.

Does this make sense to anybody but me?

Will