Okay, the gloves are off. Let the fur fly


I would like to hear one single cogent technically accurate explanation of how a multi-way box speaker can be more musically accurate than single drivers or stats. As a speaker designer for more than 25 years, I have yet to hear an argument that holds water, technically. The usual response involves bass or treble extension, as if that is the overriding principle in music reproduction. My position is that any information lost or jumbled in the complex signal path of multi-way box speakers can never be recovered by prodigious bass response, supersonic treble extension, or copious numbers of various drivers. Louder,yes. Deeper,yes. Higher, maybe. More pleasing to certain people,yes. But, more musically revealing and accurate,no. I posted this because I know that it will surely elicit numerous defensive emotional responses. I am prepared to suffer slings and arrows from many directions. But, my question still remains. Can you technically justify your position with facts?
twl
Paul, you are correct on both accounts. A speaker down 40 db at 25Hz or any thing like that could not be considered accurate at that frequency. The question is what do you do about it? This has been the discussion above. Read some more above posts, because I can't write a book again on it here. In you crossover statement, basic simple crossovers shift 90 degrees out of phase on a 6db slope. Most audiophile speakers will use 12db because that slope is 180 out, and can be compensated for by switching the polarity on the appropriate driver. 18db slopes are 270, and 24db slopes are 360 or 0. This is simplified theory, but there are other methods used to address phase shift. As for electrostats,the "full range" types are single drivers, albeit a different type than cone drivers. (Some stats use multiple panels though)
Thank you Twl for the crossover explaination. Looking back, I think I have gone in "your" direction. I had stats with a poorly matched subwoofer. I yanked that sub, and although I was missing a great deal of bass, what was left was much more "musicaly acurate". I still have stats (ML SL3's) and have since gone the SET route. First with a Decware Zen Select and most recently Decware Integrated. So much more involving, albeit without the bass. Willing to compromise, next step, to add an REL Storm sub. I hope that it is quick enough. Great thread! Lots of valid points made, and surprizingly civilized.
THE THIRD ALTERNATIVE... To follow up Zaikesman's excellent post of 4-01...the real world factors" that put very serious considerations on the SOUND LABS "conquror of the boxes"...IF you can afford...IF your wife likes the new furniture...IF you can find the proper placement (room size factor)...IF your favorite amp will accept the demanding low ohm load...too many "IFS" for me at this point in hobby and life..the 3RD alternative for me is choosing the SUPERIOR drivers you would like in your design...and not having to buy the "commercials" that choose for you...IF the "POPULAR" labs put the drivers i mention in a design their markup brings us into the SOUND LABS price range..and we don't want to go there..21ST century drivers are : FOCAL midwoofers and midrange,PHILIPS RT8P isodynamic tweeter,ESg1,ESg2 ribbons,RAVEN1,2,3 ribbons,MENGER full range,TRIANGLE full range...with a good designer you can put together a far superior speaker for alot less than whats offered in your local hi-fi shop..these drivers with superior xover components (HOVLAND,SOLEN etc) would better the SL's is some aspects, the one factor that comes to mind is the price differential $1500 to $2500 VS. $8K and UP UP...AWAYYY! AND i get to keep my amp of choice. To complete the full range of frequencies we will need a superior sub that makes the intergration work, FOCAL WX11 WX13 WX15. This kit choice is just a possible 3rd alternative,not for everyone, but for me it's the only way to go.
Fascinating thread! However, I can't grasp the out of phase comment in Twl 0402 post: if, say, a multidriver speaker is out of phase, the musicality & timing (prat?) will be lost -- irretrievably? I mean, even if I reverse the polarity at single driver(s) or speaker level, I won't get the phase/timing corrected, surely -- rather, something has to be done @ crossover level? Or am *I* irretrievably confused (most probable)??? Cheers!