Vandersteen Mod 5 vs Coincident Tech Total Eclipse

I haven't heard the Vandersteen Model 5s. I've have owned the 3s and the 2CEs. I now own the Total Eclipse. I can agree with the above comment about room placement to a degree. They are not hard to place, but need to be out into the room about 3 feet due to a large rear port. Wifey may not like the placement, but they are beautiful speakers. Mine loves them. You could place them on her head, and she would still love them. They just look great and sound great. Once placed appropriately, these things absolutely disappear. They have great detail, soundstaging, and a perfect midrange that works with about any amp. The deciding factor may be more complicated than just "which is the better speaker", in absolute terms. Cost would be one thing to consider. You can ocassionally find the Total Eclipse speakers used. Not very often, though. I've only seen two pairs in a couple of years of watching. One was from a reviewer, and the second I bought. I've never seen the Vandersteens used. That may say something for the owner satisfaction level of both of these fine speakers. The Totals usually sell for around $5000 used. Don't know about the Vandersteens.

But what really swings it for me is the sensitivity of the Total Eclipse, and their ability to sound good with ANYTHING! They are 94db at 14 ohms. What ever you want to use with them, you can. That can be from a 10 watt SET to 500 watts of solid state. I am waiting for my Wyetech Topaz to arrive. In the interim, I was driving the Totals with an Audion 12w Stering with Seimans NOS EL34s. They were absolutely stunning! The only cavaet was that the low bass response was a bit shelved because of the Sterling's roll off. But this 12w amp could drive me out of the room. I then used a Jolida 1501 RC. Again, great results. Now I have more bass from the hybrid 100w Jolida, but the SET midrange magic was gone, and the mids were dryer, less detailed. It was easy to hear the difference between the two amps, as it should be with a great speaker. The Totals give you versatility in spades. As I change out equipment to satisfy my audiophile insanity, the Totals will always be compatible with just about anything I want to try. Good thing, because speakers are a pain to sell and ship. I can deal with changing out everything else in the system. That's just one of the reasons they were one of Absolute Sound's Golden Ear Award winners.

With all due respect, Mikes, you are not going about this acquisition in the correct manner.

I am always baffled by this type of thread. It is no reflection on you, but when someone puts up two very different products, each with very different requirements, and asks which one should he purchase, I do not feel that anyone in this forum will be able to provide you with the right answer. Compound that with the fact that you have not settled on the room or amplification yet. Recipe for unhappiness.

I do feel that the members here can offer a lot of insight in terms of how something sounds, how it mates to other equipment, or their own personal experience.

One of the most important factors in an audio system is the speaker to room interface. It can not be turned away from. No ifs, ands, or buts. Add in that speakers are so different, just like people's tastes, and I feel that the first thing we need to think about it leading you down the wrong path.

My advice is ultimately this. BUY YOUR HOUSE FIRST. Once you establish where the speakers will be, you will be able to have a much greater opportunity for success. It may not even be these two!

As you are dealing with two world class loudspeakers here, I would say that they will be the pillars of your system. In my opinion, the road to success it to first match your room and tastes to a loudspeaker. From the two you present here, I would consider this a lifetime purchase. That is, if you pick the right one for you, and the room, which should be large and undersquare.

One more thing. NEVER buy a speaker without a thorough audition. That is, unless you just walked into a deal that will not be offered again - i.e. they are rare to the point of almost never coming up for sale, or if you had to sell them, you would make money.

I love both Coincident and Vandersteen speakers. But, they are voiced so different. It's the classic boxer vs. puncher debate. The right one in one sytem will be the wrong one in another.

The Total Eclipse are much more fast, revealing, and light on their feet. The treble is more fast, and at the same time, more airy and natural. The bass goes really deep, but doesn't have 'crack the door jamb' punch. The Vandersteen 5 is more full bodied, authoritative, and harmonically rich. These descriptions are most applicable in the bass and midrange. They will both play classical, jazz, rock, and evn hip - hop(if you needed to) music in a fine manner. They just sound different. Very different. I would say the Total Eclipse is more clear, while the Vandersteen 5 is more romantic. Which sound do you prefer? Only you can answer this question.

Both match well to equipment which is opposite to their nature. And, do not match well, at all, to upstream equipment that is similar to them. In other words, match the Total Eclipse to rich sounding equipment, match the Vandersteen to neutral sounding equipment. If you see either of these speakers in a good sounding set - up, you will notice this. Look upstream.

Amplification cannot be ignored in this debate. Can not. Along with the room, and your tastes, it will be a determining factor in whether you keep these loudspeakers, or not. Please do not paint yourself in the corner of deciding whether you need to find new speakers, or new amplification after this purchase. If you have an amp with a generous amount of power, the Vandersteen is a superior match. The Vandersteen needs a large monoblock push/pull tube amp with superior transformers and at least 4 output tubes per channel, or solid state. The Model 5 will not work well with anything less. With an average to lower powered tube amp of less than 8 output tubes, SET, or OTL amplifier, you had better opt for the Coincident. Driving the Total Eclipse with high power or solid state just does not work well. Especially, solid state, due to the high impedence of the speaker - it's 14 ohms.

So, in a nutshell. Figure out where they will be, what you will drive them with, and whether you like vanilla or chocolate. Then, you will ensure that you will buy the right speakers.

GOOD LUCK!

Excellent comments, Joe. You hit all the important points, and I agree everything. For the benefit of other readers, it might be useful to know that Joe owns a pair of Coincident Technology Total Eclipse speakers (do I have the correct model, Joe?), but he also has good experience with Vandersteen speakers. So, his comments should be given appropriate weight.

I owned the van 5's for about six months. I found I simply could not get them to sound 'awesome' in my then 13x16 L shaped listening room without bringing them 6 feet into the room which gave them an ungainly placement. Henceforth I sold them. The back wall has wall to ceiling bookcases to absorb the sound. I think those speakers really need a big 20 foot+ room to sound good. I also found:

- They need to be turned up a bit to liven up.

- In close low level listening is not their forte. At the
time I sat about 7 feet from them & I listen at low to
medium levels, so this was a problem for me.

- For a reference grade speaker I would like to hear more
detail. I realize this is part of their voicing.

- They are far and away the most difficult speaker I've set
up. I think this is directly related to my room size and
their overpowering bass/low detail. I spent months of
experimentation with an spl meter and found they
only 'locked in' at a very specific place in my room. The
big problem was that if you moved them 1-2 feet you
would need to recalibrate the crossover settings to
flatten them out again. I don't think this would happen
in a larger room. By comparison I set up my full range
eidolons in 2-3 hours and found they sounded excellent in
almost any reasonable placement. Note that I'm now
using a 20 foot room.

- I found I could only get them to sound good by throwing
ultra high resolution gear and cables at them to
compensate. I didn't get them to sound GREAT until i
put an $8000 vk-50SE preamp and 20K in quattro fil and
double run spm speaker cables on them. Great they did
sound, but I've achieved great sound with far lessor
components.

- Their amazingly powerful bass was a problem in that
pictures and my fireplace grill would shake at virtually
any volume. Perhaps a good thing. I did have the bass
dialed down a bit.

- The highpass filter that goes between the preamp and amp
was a problem for me. I had the balanced version. I
coudn't use my cd player as a direct source. I also
could not use my pass labs gear because pass labs have
differentially balanced circuitry. Audio research
balanced worked well.

For components I found the audio research vt100m2 to be the best amplifier and the bat-vk50se the best preamp match. The vk30se and ref1 were also good. Because the amplifier is only driving the midrange and tweeters you don't need that much power.

I realize I've outlines some negative aspects of this design. These speakers did not work FOR ME in MY ROOM. I still think they are one of the best speakers made at any price. Very natural presentation, and wonderful instrument weight. Best bass I've heard. A must listen for anyone shopping.