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How to Achieve Great Imaging & Soundstage

Hey 'Goners,

While my primary system is in flux, I'm starting to think about revamping my second system, which employs monitor sized speakers in a small (16x16) living room. I love audible holigraphy!!! My desire is to put together a system that creates great 3D imaging and soundstage. While this thread may use my current setup as an example - its real intent is to get advice for/from all interested agoners about the most important factors required to achieve great imaging and soundstage: speakers, electronics, tweaks, room acoustics...

My current system consists of a Classe CAP-101 integrated attached to Triangle Titus 202 speakers using AQ Slate cables. The CD players vary from an Arcam FMJ CD23 to a Cary CD308, using Kimber PBJ IC's. The room is 16x16 and organized on the diaganol, with the speakers on either side of a loveseat (a necessary 'no-no' due to space constraints). The ceiling is doube-high and tilted down to the rear. I currently don't get much imaging at all, even if I remove the loveseat. The sound is overall good, though a bit bright, and I think the upper-end of the Titus speakers is a bit edgy and unrestrained - probably needs a shift in system synergy. It's a carpeted room with stuffed furniture, but the walls are bare and hard and there is a picture window with a fabric shade.

So what is most important: componentry or setup? While in San Francisco last week I audioned Totem Mani-2 and Model 1 speakers, as well as B&W N805's (all driven by a Rotel CDP, Aragon preamp, and ??? SS amp). The latter two speakers provided very good soundstage and imaging, but the Mani-2 wasn't as good. I note that the N805 appeared to get good imaging partly from its high frequency emphasis, and I was wondering whether the Model 1's achieved good imaging due to their small size. Is small size a big boon towards good imaging??? I'm also wondering how much difference the electronics could have been making. Even though imaging fell short in 1/3 speakers, how much are electronics a necessary key ingrediant?

So the questions I want to pose here are:

1) WHAT IS YOUR HIERCHIAL APPROACH TO ACHIEVING EXCELLENT IMAGING AND SOUNDSTAGE?

2) IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR GEAR THAT YOU WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND TO ACHIEVE THIS END?

I'll be attending CES in January, and will be listening for the best in this realm. But they only show current gear - and older, used components are a resource not to be ignored.

Thanks All.
peter_s
stehno
1,453 posts
 
I believe the ingredients to producing excellent sonics in general (including imaging and soundstaging) consists of six basic ingredients:

1. A certain caliber and quality of equipment
(cost is not a factor but sometimes it helps).
2. The quality of room acoustics.
3. Equipment and especially speaker placement in room.
4. A synergy between components, a synergy between system and room.
5. Quality of recordings listened to.
6. Quality of electrical AC lines. Dedicated lines and circuits, wiring, line conditioners, outlets, powercords, etc..

Numbers 1 thru 5 are paramount to achieving a satisfied answer to your question. Fail at any one of these first 5 and you fall potentially way short of the mark.

Number 6 adds potentially tremendous enhancements and will take you the rest of the way home once items 1 thru 5 have been properly addressed.

I would even go so far as to say that if performing the items listed in number 6 make no sonic difference, then the user most likely has failed at properly addressing one or more of the first 5 items.

Number 6 is the icing on the cake but also a nice mearsuing tool to determine how well you executed items 1 thru 5.

So I'm guessing the hierarchical order to be:
1. equipment, acoustics, placement, synergy, recordings.
2. Clean electrical AC.

-IMO
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
Although much depends on what components you're using, I would say number to achieving great soundstaging is placement of the speakers within the room and their relative position to the listening chair.

Personally, I've had great results achieving a lifelike soundstage with ProAc monitors. I also attribute much of what I've accomplished to my Blue Circle tube preamp and Virtual Dynamics cabling.
seandtaylor99
1,262 posts
 
I think speaker positioning in the room is more important than the equipment. I'd go as far as to say that you're wasting money on expensive equipment if the room layout is not good for imaging. My favourite sites are Cardas:
http://www.cardas.com/insights/index.html
And audiophysic:
http://www.audiophysic.de/produkte/aufstellung/aufstellung_e2.html
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
I am absolutely with Gunbei and Sean, speaker placement is paramount in realizing what you are trying to achieve. What is between the speakers will also affect the soundfield dramatically. This should be minimized to the greatest extent possible.

So far as gear goes, it will improve on matters but isn't the first place to start. Treatment requires experimentation to determine what it is you like. Some prefer a deader sound some a liveler sound, it is totally subjective and your tastes will have to guide you there. So far as speakers that image well, well there are quite a few out there.

Always remember that imaging and soundstaging are more artifacts of the recording. It is an audiophile darling but what is more important in the long run is accurate tonal balance and timbral accuracy which leads towards long term enjoyment and minimizing another audiophile bugaboo, listener fatigue.
seandtaylor99
1,262 posts
 
For great imaging on the cheap look for used Spica Tc-60s or Angelus (which I own). They don't play high SPLs and they're not the most dynamic speaker, but they have fantastic imaging and a very non-fatiguing top end. And they're both <$500 a pair. A true audio bargain.
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