Vandersteen 5 vs Model 2c/2wq Combo

If you want to go cheap: Get a set of 2ce Signatures and power them with a mccormack dna 1 or .5 rev A. You will get great sound from this and probably won't need a subwoofer. I feel that from a price/performance/packaging viewpoint, the 2cesig is his best speaker. In some ways I preferred the speed of the 2ceSig to the bass of the 3aSig's.

If you want to go cheap and have bass, I would just go for the 3aSig's, a mcormack dna1 or 225, and skip the subwoofer. This combo has awesome bass. You should be able to get those for 2-2.2K. Try to get a dna1 w/revA.

The 5 is a world class loudspeaker. The 5 and my current eidolons are my two favorite speakers of all time. The avanti running a close 3rd. The model 5 does offer something unique in that you can drive it with a smaller amp & save money there. I drove my set with a 100w audio research vt100m2. Match made in heaven. It gave me the lowend power of a solid state amp, the midrange of a tube amp, and the coherency of an integrated rull range speaker. I think it would be reasonable to use a 125w dna .5 to drive them. The five is an enormous step up from the 2's. The downside is that you really need a big room for them to sound good and you need to have the hipass filter between the amp and preamp. I sold my set because I couldn't get them to sound good in my L shaped 16x12 room without moving them 5 feet into the room. You might be able to pick up a used set of 5's for 7-8K now that the 5a is out. The 5 had the most perfect integration of heavy bass and mid/hi range. I've never been able to get a subwoofer to match a mains speaker as well. In fact I've kind of given up on subwoofers.

Well, this is becoming a good thread with lots of relevant commentary. I have a few clarifying remarks I'd like to add:
1. I did not mean in my opening post to sound disparaging about the 2Ce/2Wq combo. Before owning 3A Sig's, I owned the 2Ci and then the 2Ce, and I think it is an excellent speaker offering very high value. IMO, however, the 2Ce is some distance from the Model 5 in performance, whereas the 3A Sig is much closer.

2. Someone above commented that the 3A's are much bigger than the 2Ce's. Depends on what aspect of size you mean: the 3A/3A Sig's are about 8" taller than the 2Ce, but the width and depth of the two speakers are identical (16" wide, 10" deep). Put differently, both speakers have the same footprint, but the 3A is taller. The extra volume of the 3A/3A Sig speaker cabinet contributes to its slightly lower frequency response, but the main difference between the 2Ce and the 3A series is attributable to the 3A series having better quality drivers and crossover.

3. Marakanetz comments that the Model 5 has a more powerful built-in amp than the 2Wq sub: 400 watts vs. 300 watts. As a practical matter, this power difference is negligible, amounting only to about 1db difference in power output. The smallest discernable increase in volume for most people is 3db, and to achieve a 3db gain you must double the power of the amp (i.e., go from 300 watts to 600 watts).

The 2Wq sub is capable of response down to about 18 Hz, whereas the subwoofer in the Model 5 may get down another 2 Hz or so lower. As a practical matter, this is also largely irrelevant, since your listening room will almost certainly restrict output below 22-24 Hz. The lowest frequency reproduced by any musical instrument, the pedal organ, is about 16 Hz, but there are not more than a handful of recordings with frequencies that low. The LFE in home theater is also restricted below 25 Hz. Hence, it does not make much sense to obsess about trying to reproduce frequencies much below 22-24 Hz unless you have a really large, really GOOD listening room.

The chief virtue of the equalizer built into the Model 5 is to provide a more uniform frequency balance in the lower 2 octaves (20-40 Hz, and 40-80 Hz), not to enhance response below 20 Hz. It's 11-band equalizer allows the user to discretely adjust for dips and peaks in the lower 2 octaves, where there can be significant response anomalies from one room to another.

If you read the posts made by owners of the Model 5, you will generally find that they most appreciate the balance and transient response of the subwoofer. The proprietary subwoofer in the Model 5 actually uses two 12" cones which oppose each other and operate in push-pull fashion, and are driven by an enormous magnet assembly. The 2Wq sub uses three 8" drivers which have roughly the surface area of a single 14" driver, which is substantially less than the two 12" drivers in the Model 5.

To wrap up this rather rambling note, I don't mean in any way to discourage you from starting your system with the 2Ce/2Wq combo. However, if your budget will allow, get a pair of 2Wq subs, since they provide much better system performance than a single sub. Infact, Richard Vandersteen really designed the 2Wq to be used in stereo pairs.

Last, if your budget allows, get a pair of used 3A's -- there is a pair listed here on Audiogon for $1500. They will give you better performance than the 2Ce, and they can be upgraded to the 3A Sig's at a later time for relatively little.

Hope all this helps and isn't overkill. Good listening!

This has been a big eye opener when it comes to what I want, what I need and what I should get. After reading all the specs on the Vandersteen site and reading what other who own them have to say, I now feel that the Model 5A may be a little more than I need; however, I am now leaning toward a model 3A/2Wq combo. In reality, I only want them for music. I do not need them to go down so low I can only feel it and not hear it. I am thinking of getting the 3As sometime next year after I have a chance to try out a pair at my home. It may turn out that they produce all the bass that I need. Right now I am using B&W DM602s as my mains and an Infinity subwoofer that has had some tweaking done to it that gives it a little more push than it use to get(please, no laughing). As you can see, any Vandy might thrill me to death as it is.

I think the 3A/2Wq combo would be an excellent place to start for you, providing a lot of performance for a reasonable sum of money (by high-end standards), particularly if you buy used equipment. Further, you have an upgrade path available to you with the 3A Signature. Whatever you eventually decide to do, always remember the audiophile "caveat": trust your own ears!

I would like to chime in here as Vandersteen products are among my favorites. Throughout their lineup they offer some of the best values in audio.

Matchstikman a few years back I had the opportunity to audition side by side both the 3a Sigs and the 2ce Sigs with an Audio Research VT 100 Mk II amp and a Ref 1 pre. I know there are many positive comments on the pairing of the Vandy's with both McCormack and Scott likes the Bryston but to my ears over the years, the Vandy/ARC combo is the best I've heard, great synergy. This particular set-up was ideal. I listened to both speakers and had goosebumps almost the entire audition of the 3a Sigs with my music, excellent, excellent. Check out that combination before you commit to anything.

Also for the price difference I concur with Scott, go with the 3a's or Sigs if you can. As good as the 2c's are the 3a's are really worth the difference. I also agree with Maxgain and all respondents concerning not skimping on the quality of the gear up front, the Vandies will reward you well if you do, good luck!