Speaker placement at dealers

If the dealers were honest they'd ask where you are able to place them at home before letting you listen to ANYTHING. If you answered that the speakers have to be placed against a wall then an honest dealer would have to recommend that you save your money and buy some midfi, because the money is wasted if speakers are not properly placed (IMHO).
Since very few people are prepared to live with speakers way out into the room I think this would completely kill whatever bits of the hi-end business still exist.

Would have to agree with both Bigtree ..in regards to Vandersteen...few dealers let alone owners know how to intergrate these into a room...a buddy of mine who knows his stuff went Maggies...but swears by Vandersteen if you dont want a sub...I auditioned them on several occassions...
but due to space limitations went with a monitor...some have said they dont require much room "to breath"...but my experience has been the opposite...they "throw out" so much sound...I was concerned about wall interactions...I do have to admit...their soundstage is HUGE...some have complained about 1st order "lobing"(small sweet spot)...they sounded pretty good to me when set up correctly...the only downside...and this is being honest...they do lack speed...especially in the bass department...however...the bass is very clean...no speaker is perfect...at least you are getting some low frequency...too many speakers today sound bright and thin...Vandies dont...

By far, the greatest "tweak" I've found in audioland is SPEAKER PLACEMENT! And it's free, though it will cost you a fair amount of time.

With our customers, I frequently go over speaker placement with them. They should not only hear them well positioned in our store, but a good dealer will EDUCATE them how to do it in their homes as well.

Often, I'll deliver equipment right to the customer's home. They may just be buying cables or accessories, but I'll take the time to reposition their speakers for them within their home livability range (ie, not tripping over cables in their living room, etc.). I do it while they are watching, and tell them what to listen for when I move them.

By the time I leave, their system easily takes a big jump in performance...much more so than the new amp or other piece of equipment they bought would do on its on, without placing the speakers right.

And yes...an amazing amount of people I know that THINK they are audiophiles have no clue about positioning. It's really laughable how little they care about it when their system costs about $10-20k. Sometimes, they'll even move them back to their poor positioning when I return...and it's not as if I stuck them 1/3 of the way out into the room either.

Jeff Delman
Value Audio
www.value-audio.com

A shop here in Chicago that has come and gone long ago used to ask you what gear you wanted to hear and / or what price range you were looking in and then configure a system of your desire. If this meant wiring up something other than what they currently had configured, so be it. When you decided what speakers you wanted to hear, they would bring them into the room and set them up as best possible. As such, the only speakers in the room would be those that you were auditioning. If you wanted to hear the speakers with a different amp, no problem. While one could drop by and do an audition in this manner if they were not busy, they typically prefered to do things via appointment. As you can tell from the very customer oriented service and attention to detail, they did not want to be rushed nor did they want you to walk away with the wrong impression of the gear. One never left the store with the typical "here it is, listen to it and then pay me" type of attitude and experience that one normally finds in a "high end" shop. Nor were you talked down to as if you were an imbecile if you liked other brands that they did not carry or asked "dumb" questions.

For the record, that store was Victor's Stereo. Victor spent a LOT of time with me on the phone when i was only about 12 - 13 years old. While he truly was a patient and sincerely good guy, i think he got a kick out of talking to a "kid" that wanted to discuss and understood slew rate, rise time, power bandwidth, etc... While he did carry some "fast" gear ( AGI, Spectral, etc.. ) and believed that spec's could tell you some specific things about the product, he always stressed that it was the sound and system synergy that counted in the end. As such, he used to recommend some out of the ordinary combo's ( fast preamps with turtle-like amps, buying two amps and then only running one channel per amp, etc.. ) that truly did sound good. By the time i was 15 ( 1979 ), i ended up buying a couple of phono cartridges and a preamp from Victor. When i was 18, i was taking some of the "older" people that i worked with to his shop to listen to gear. Many of these people were looking at "rack systems" and did not understand the meaning of "quality over quantity". After auditioning modest systems with Victor's guidance, they found it quite easy to differentiate between various components, speakers, etc... Needless to say, those people were amazed to learn that they too had "golden ears" once they opened them and paid attention.

Having said that, i miss that shop and the attitude that went with it. I'm sure that you can understand why. There aren't many brick and mortar dealers that will go that distance, let alone spend time nurturing young audiophiles. If you can find a shop that offers this type of service, PLEASE do your part to keep them in business. It is this type of dealer that keeps the hi-end business and "audiophilia" alive. Sean
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PS... Sorry for the rant, but the basis of this thread brought back a lot of memories.

I spent months trying to get my set-up right, but was well worth the time and effort (electrostatics are finicky beasts). You should be able to try any component you're serious about buying in your home set up. And once it meets your needs, keep them and PAY THE DEALER FOR THEM, he's earned it. Try them in your home courtesy of your dealer, love them, then return them to your dealer and look for a "deal" on the 'net or a competing dealer? You're lower than whale s***t. Dealers who provide home auditions and valuable set up service are entitled to my hard earned dough (and a reasonable profit). As for the rest of the bricks & mortar guys who think you're doing them a favor, time they found a new vocation.