Round Two: Best Speakers for LOUD music and rock??

Scott: Speakers with first order crossovers "should" typically be more efficient than a speaker using a more complex and parts heavy crossover. If one uses very high quality drivers with good power handling characteristics, i see no reason why a speaker using first order crossovers shouldn't be able to play loud.

I think it boils down to how the speaker is designed. There are compromises involved when aiming for low volume detail or high spl capability. Many designers try to shoot for something in middle and i think that Richard basically aimed for lower to middle range spl reproduction. As such, he sacrificed high power output and concentrated on the listening ranges where most "normal" people end up doing 80% of their listening. This does not make it a bad product, only one that is limited in the grander scheme of things.

Like anything else, you have to buy what will work for you AND get something that you like. Speakers are VERY personal, probably more-so than any other component in a system. As such, one must pick and choose what models best fits their needs while taking into account the various trade-offs built into each design. Sean
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The Legacy Focus 20/20 play louder and cleaner at high volumes than the VMPS RM 40 - I know - I own both.

Jeff,
I'm using the 3.3's myself, often for long periods. Bi-amping does more for these speakers than any I have owned. I can't express the difference in words. SPL is one issue relative to power output. But along with power, comes CONTROL of the drivers. If you have the duckies, I would suggest another pair of the monoblocks you are using. Not only will you get a bit more volume, but the amps won't be exhausted at the extreme end of the spectrum, which seems to be the arena where you lack satisfaction.

The NHT's (especially the 3.3's) are very unforgiving of non-neutral or excessively bright electronics and recordings. I used a BAT VK3i for a short time, teamed with Sunfire 300's (Biamped) with glorious results. I've since moved on to home theater. I'm still using the 3.3's biamped with Anthem MCA II's, and SS preamp/ processor. I've been unable to capture that same "magic", but the system still sounds great.

The 3.3's are VERY power-hungry. You know that. But the more juice you feed them, the more "open" they sound. It sounds like you've got them set up right. Moving them slightly away from the wall will improve the soundstage slightly, but you will lose some of the impact of your lower octaves.

The next upgrade I would suggest would be cheaper, and far more noticable: Replace the subs with a servo-controlled beast or 2. I've got a PAIR of Mirage BPS-400's, and find that they definitely add a little more slam to the flat sound of the 3.3's. I haven't used, or been exposed to, the SUB TWO, but the fact that you're crossing over at 60Hz leads me to believe that the 3.3's aren't being used to their full potential. An extra pair of amps would help you push the envelope. Let those 3.3's sing at full range, with the power where you need it. The subs can supplement the 3.3's when necessary. I find that my subs are unnecessary for music, but add that extra kick for home theater use.

Best regards.
Happy Holidays.
David.

I think you should try "hifiho's" recommendation about "bi-amping" the 3.3's before you sell them! You will definitley get more dynamic ease, slam, and impact with a dedited amp driving the bottom woofer!(bottom posts). However, my STRONG recommendation is to forget the tubes on the bottom, and use an excellent solid state amp to handle the bass. Parasound HCA3500 used makes the most sense of anything you could chose, as it has superb powerful bass at 350w/ch, and has VOLUME CONTROLS ON THE BACK for proper balancing with your tube amps! I doubt anyone in the hifi industry would argue with that recommendation for "bi-amp" puposes!
At least before you go dumping those excellent rock speakers(as passive speakers go), you should try it. Also, yes, doing powered subs set up well, and crossing over your 3.3's for "small" on your pre/pro(if you have one) would be something to try(still trying biamping however on the speakers).
Dunlavy's will be fast and accruate souding for rock, and might be a future try. But you should still give the 3.3's more "tinkering" before you let go...my suggestion.
Another strong candidate choice is what is offered in active speakers by ATC. But you can also get high end sound from "powered woofer speakers" like Infinity Prelude MTS's or NHT VT3's(rated as better than 3.3's in every respect(?)).
good luck
Good luck

Hi:

Thanks to ALL for the great posts and valuable input.

Regarding the suggestion to biamp, believe me, I've tried. That's why I modified the speakers (a factory production tech did it for me) to add a switch that can bypass the low-end crossover, if I wish.

I've tried both ways - using a pair of SS monoblocks and an outboard LP xover, and also just running an additional pair of amps straight in to the woofers/LP xover in the speakers. The problem was that I could not get the bass and mids/highs to sound seamless or full - I used a pair of 280 watt SS monoblocks. Weirdly enough, the speakers sounded MUCH better running full-range biwired. I mean, NO comparison. Using the second pair of SS amps, the bass was just awful. Present, yes, but either loose, sloppy and all over the place, or barely present. No matter WHERE the gain was set.

As a last resort, I have a third ARC M300mkII monoblock, and I've had an ad on here trying to buy a fourth one so I can try biamping with four of the identical monoblocks. No luck, so far, though....

Thanks - Jeff