Speakers

Yes, I partially agree with Tok20000. And that is one reason why you should focus on the amp first.

Unless of course he is disagreeing with the addage:

"An excellent amplifier can make mediocre speakers sound almost excellent. But an excellent pair of speakers with a mediocre amplifier will never sound better than mediocre."

If Tok20000 disagrees with this addage, then I must disagree with his assessment.

-IMO

I do not necessarily agree with that addage.

Let's take the world class amp the LAMM ML2 for example. The ML2 is quite frankly one of the finest SET amps made, period. But is someone were to buy this amp thinking that such an excellent amp could be matched with their favorite speaker (their favorite speaker still being an unknown variable), they would be taking a huge risk. The ML2 at 18 wpc or so at 3% THD needs to be matched with speakers that are at least 94db+ efficient.

The preceeding example might seem like an obvious one, so I will give you a little less than obvious one.

The Sim Moon W-5 amp has been reviewed rather well by critics. I have had a W-5 myself. I would say it could be a very good amp. I would not say it is world class (although Stereophile did stick it in Class A). Anyway, the amp is a powerful amp at 200wpc into 8 ohms and 400wpc into 4 ohms. One might think based on the current specifications and press that this is the amp to drive Maggie 3.6 speakers with (Stereophile certainly thought so). All I can say is that this amp did NOT do anything for my Maggie 3.6's when I had both in my system. This is not the amp to drive Maggies with. A Plinius SA-250mk4 on the other hand.... drives the Maggies big time.

Another example of needing to mate an Amp with speakers (and not to mention your front end) has to do with system gain. System gain can be a serious issue if you have one or more of the following circumstances:

1 - Speaker are not sensative at all.
2 - Speakers are really sensative.
3 - Preamp is passive or just does not have much gain at all.
4 - Preamp volume is stepped and does not have many steps.
5 - Source has a lot of gain.
6 - Source has very little gain.

Anyone one or more of these above circumstances can wreak havok with a systems ability to amplify music or control the amplification of music.

You do not necessarily want to drive any set of speakers with ANY great 100+wpc amp. Especially if your speakers you like are Hornes that are 103db or so, and the amp you are thinking about using is very sensative to input voltage. AND ESPECIALLY if your preamp is stepped, and your source has a very high output. This is a combo that can get you into serious gain trouble. Basically, you will find that at the first step on your volume could way too lound, and your second step is extremely loud. In an instance like this, I would recommend something like a Cary Rocket 88 tube amp which is pretty low powered and not very sensative. Yes, I have had a Rocket 88 amp as well.

The preceeding 3 examples goes to show that one should fall in love with speakers first and buy them first. Then get the amplification to best mate with your speakers. If for some reason your current amplification cannot drive the speakers that you desire, you will need to wait, or buy amplification with your new speakers that matches your new speakers well.

BTW I can give many examples similiar to the above ones as to why a world class amp will not necessarily make mediocre speakers sound good at all. It is all in the mating. If the mediocre speakers are not matched properly with the amplification, you just are not going to get good sound.

Saying world class amplification can drive any speaker well is far too simplistic. This is contrary to many experiences I have been through/

One more real world example. If I had not been able to change the internal sensativity of my GamuT D-200 amp, I would not have been able to use the D-200 in my system when I had the Cary 306/200 CDP. I had to adjust the D-200 to the lowest sensativity due to gain issues. The Cary puts out a whopping 6v through XLR. This massive output combined with the Ayre K-3x stepped volume control combined with a very sensative GamuT D-200 amp (at factory default setting) and 90db speaker (glad my speakers are not MORE sensative), this let to minimal low level volume control. At 4-5 notches on the Ayre preamp, my volume was full blast for my ears. This is not good, and the problem was solved by getting a source with a lower output, and switching the GamuT to a lower sensativity setting.

KF

I'm a dealer,Beware! I may intend to sell you something God forbid. But If I didn't believe in what I sell would you want to buy from me? Anyway look into Soliloquy 6.3s. they will rock, they will work well later on when you decide to SET amp, and they are made well. Plus they have a good resale if you do get tired of them.

I agree completely with Tok2000. Not just because of the compatibility issue, but because speakers vary much more in "personality" than other components (notice that I didn't say quality). There is also the issue of matching with your room - you don't mention the size - which will rule out a lot of speakers.

You mention home theater, does that mean that you want speakers where center and rear speakers are available as well? Does it mean that you will be using a subwoofer which will offload your main speakers in the bass? I have - in the absence of information - assumed that you want a 2-channel system with full range speakers.

I don't know whether you would consider DIY in which case you should look at the following non-conventional speakers

- GR Research Alpha LS (www.gr-research.com)
- Rick Craig Excelarray (www.se;ahaudio.com)

You can buy completed cabinets for the Alpha (total expense will be about 4000) and the Excelarray can be bought complete at around 5000. These speakers are both fairly efficient and should work with a wide range of amps, but they do require a big size room.

I haven't heard the VMPS RM-40, but they may well match your requirements from the reviews and owner comments. Note that there is a new ribbon option which is supposed to be a big upgrade. There may be some good offers coming for second hand speakers as owners upgrade to the RM/X that is to be announced at the CES.

Look at Revel Studios. You may be able to get a pair on Audiogon for around 5k. These have a fantastic soundstage and wonderful bass. You may consider as an alternative the Revel F30s with the Revel B-15 sub. Revel makes great speakers that are musical and robust. I agree you should get speakers you like and then work on pairing the amp. I have tried a number of combinations with varying results.