Candid opinions regarding Kharma Ceramique 2.2


As indicated in a previous post, I am trying to make some final decisions regarding speaker selction for a "mid-range budgeted" 2 channel system. This system will be for a dedicated audio room that we will be constructing this summer with dimensions 23Lx13Wx9H. My musical tastes of late include a number of alternative rock/indie rock/rock artists: Radiohead, Muse, Ryan Adams, Strokes, White Stripes, Franz Ferdinand, Interpol, PJ Harvey, Lucinda Williams, Beck, U2, REM, Modest Mouse, Shins, Air, Stereolab etc

To date, my problem has been limited access to auditioning equipment as I live in a small Canadian city. Many speakers have been auditioned on business trips and there are some I have yet to track down (e.g. Kharma Ceramique 2.2) Of the speakers I have listened to so far, my short list includes JMlab Utopia Alto Be, Dynaudio Confidence C2, and the Wilson Sophia. I want to listen to Dali Euphonia's MS4 and the Kharma Ceramique 2.2 and I am waiting to travel somewhere where I can seriously audition them. The likely electronics will be Simaudio P-5 preamp, W-5 amp, and Nova CDP. On the other hand, I am still considering the possibility of a tube pre-amp (e.g. Hovland HP200), but would definitely prefer to avoid a tube amp.

As much as I love the musicality, air, transparency of the JMlab Alto Be, I am troubled by it's price, bulk, and worry it may be a tad too polite for the music I listen to. Similarly, I worry the C2 maybe too polite and lacking a little in emotional dynamic bass. On the othe hand, as much as I love the dynamic bass response of the Sophia (e.g. playing White Stripes), and the precise focused imaging of that speaker, I worry the speaker maybe too much in your face for extended listening and enjoyment It can also be tough on poorly recorded discs ...

Therefore, I am not sure I have found the right speaker yet, and given all the recent excitement regarding the more expensive Kharma speakers, I have been intrigued to consider their lower more affordable model the Ceramique 2.2. Yet, reading the recent review by Becker on enjoythemusic.com, I worry that he felt the speaker was similarly too much in your face, too detailed, and impossible to ignore. Moreover, he states the speaker is on the "border where music could become irritable or edgy with bad recordings". At the same time, he remarked about the trademark Kharma disappearing act. Until I get a chance to travel down to NJ, I would greatly appreciate any candid opinions regarding this speaker. I have already been recommended by person from this forum to look at this speaker line. I am curious whether people feel this speaker mates well with SS electronics, as most of the positive Kharma reviews were with tube (or hybrid) equipment (Tenor, Lamm, or Manley). Does anyone have any personal experience using the 2.2 with Simaudio amps/preamps, or the Hovland preamp ? Is this speaker too big to consider for my room size ? Do people feel this speaker is fatiguing over time ? Can anyone comment on a direct comparison with I dare say, the WIlson Sophia (please don't shoot me !).

I thank you for all of your help, sorting out my confusion. I realize I must listen myself, but I am trying to psych myself up to travel to NJ to hear for myself.
thom_y
Have you thought about other types of speakers i.e. electrostatic, ribbon (Maggies), or horns?, or are you only into the dynamic/box???

I may be way off the mark by suggesting that you look at some Maggie 3.6's, ML Prodigy's etc. If you haven't you may like the sound.
I share some of the same listening preferences as you, and I find my Merlin VSM-MM's to be heavenly. If you haven't considered these, you may wish to check into them. All of the qualities you mention looking for seem to epitomize these speakers.
I have had Kharma 1.0 for a couple years now and judging from what i have heard listening to the 1.0 .2.0 3.0,that they all share the similar traits ,also getting a touch better each step up. My feelings are ,considering the type of music you listen and what you are looking for , I don't feel the Kharmas are the speaker for you. My guess is they may be too forward and may not have the bass slam that you might be looking for. Do'nt get me wrong i feel the 1.0 is the best speaker for me,but not just right for you. I wouldn't rule out B&W 801 Matrix series 2 or 3. I owned them for years and they ( in my mind ) would do well to serve you....Good Luck
Your room is fairly good sized at about 300sq ft. For whatever type of music you listen to, a good efficient speaker will give you much more mileage than one with average efficiency, by this I mean anything >90db/w should be able to fill your room quite easily.

If you like the JM Labs, then you should also consider the Cabasse Baltic/Thor combination.

The one other advantage of efficient spks is that you could quite easily get good SPLs with even lower powered tube amps, thus saving you a bundle on expensive high powered tube amps. A good 50w tube amp would already be "too much" power.

Sorry if I confused you. Just giving an alternative view.
Dear Thom_y:

Hello again. Thorman is correct. With the exception of perhaps the top two or three Kharmas (which cost as much as a house), the Kharmas are not the best speaker for someone who listens primarily to rock, as they are more prone to compress when pushed hard as compared to, say, a Wilson, Revel or Dynaudio. They are a supurb speaker for their ability to image and soundstage, and no speaker "disappears" like a Kharma -- you cannot tell that the music is coming from the speakers -- but those are qualities that will appeal to someone who listens primarily to minimally miked jazz and classical recordings, not multitrack rock. In particular, the Kharma 2.2 would likely be wrong for you, as it has the dynamic limitations described above, yet does not have the incredible midrange and imaging of the more expensive Kharmas. PS - to the Kharma-ites out there, I am not saying that the Kharma is terrible for dynamics, but merely less suited to highly dynamic music than a Wilson, Revel or Dynaudio.

Based upon your various threads, you want a speaker that can handle real power and that will not compress when driven hard. In this regard, the Sofia or Revel Salon (or maybe Revel Studio - your room is medium-sized) would be appropriate. The Sofia uses a Focal tweeter that many feel is a bit hot, but once it gets 500+ hours on it, it should be okay. The Revels are shelved down in high frequencies above 8,000 Hz. and will be less fatiguing (they also have a tweeter control, which of course helps). I again mention the Vienna Acoustics Mahler, which definitely fits your profile.

If I were you, I would buy Sofias or Studios, power them with Bryston 7B-ST's, and get the Hovland. I had the HP-100 in my main system for two years and it is very dynamic and musical. I had noise problems like many owners (it has nothing to do with the tubes -- the outputs on the HP-100 are not shielded, and this makes the unit very susceptible to noise in places with lots of RFI/EMI or around lights with dimmer switches -- Hovland makes a "hush kit" to address the problem), but I was using it in NYC. It sounds like you are in some place like Yellowknife, so perhaps this would not be an issue for you. There are other top-quality tube preamps available with remote controls -- if you like the Hovland, you would love the VAC Renaissance (+/-$7,500 new).

Good luck.