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Sorry, yet another

I'm looking to take my system to the next level, and I'm a firm believer that speakers are one of the most important components for reproduced sound to sound like the real thing.

I'm looking for speaker recommendations in the $6k or under range (used / demo) that can replace my Von Schweikert VR-4 III HSE. These speakers do a lot of things well, and I don't want to lose those qualities, but I want to improve on a few perceived shortcomings (on to that in a second).

So if you have experience or have owned the VR-4s, lay it on me. What did it take to get better sound, and the next level?

But first, my system consists of:
- BAT VK-D5 CD Player w/ Amperex 7308 tubes.
- First Sound Presence Deluxe MKII preamp, also with Amperex 7308 tubes.
- Either Parasound Halo JC-1s or ASL Hurricanes monoblocks (have both, haven't decided on which to keep yet).
- Audience AU24 ICs and speaker cabling, PowerChords

My room is around 25' x 20', and speakers can be placed up to 4' into the room (measured front of speaker to wall behind it). I also have three dedicated 20A circuits.

Listening preferences include a lot of acoustic and electric blues, jazz, female vocal, classic rock, older hard rock, and limited classical.

I like the way the VR4s image (holographic soundstage, detail, somewhat forward presentation), their great natural midrange, airy highs and deep bass. I don't like the shorter soundstage I get and the lack of chest pounding bass slam when called for. Dynamics could be improved a touch as well.

So am I asking too much? Does such a speaker exist, whether dynamic or panel and under $6k?

Note: I haven't spent much time in positioning yet as remodeling is hampering those efforts.

Thanks for the help!
1markr
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
I'm not sure what people saw when reading this question, but I don't see many answers to what you seemed to want!

I recently went through a similar situation, asking nearly the same question. I will relate my conclusions and you may do with them as you please.

I narrowed my list to four speakers:
1) The Sony SS-M9ES. Before you burst out laughing these $16,000 speakers are very good! There is really nothing they do wrong, although they might not be perfect in every area, or system.
2) B&W Signature 30's. Generally I am not a fan of B&W speakers but they did a very good job on this pair. They are not as bass heavy as some of the B&W models.
3) Wilson Watt/Puppies. They have more than thier fair share of detractors but most of those people don't have anything substantive to say. The comment is: "I heard them ______ with _____electronics and they sucked! Thanks for the info!!! I don't think they suck.
4) Kharma Ceramique 1.0. This is a very well made speaker that doesn't look like it has much for whistles and bells, but it sounds very good.

I looked at each of these and spent a lot of time trying to decide what to buy. I ended up with the Kharma's. If I could have found a pair of the Sony's (which I was unable at that time to do) I might have bought them instead, but it would be real close.

I hope that helps a little. Just remember that nothing in your room is as important as the room. A great system will sound lousy in a bad room where an average system can sound very good in a real well laid out and built room.
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fetguy
90 posts
 
For sheer slamm and weight you would probably love the Zeus amplifier. It has much more authority than the Hurricanes on the VR4's, more authority in fact than many SS amps. The trade off is that the Hurricane is a bit better in the microdynamics area. Such is life.

In the case of the Parasound, the amp has great control but is voiced a bit on the lean side. The amp lacks "weight", which is really a function of what is happening in the mid bass. Gentle equalization would help alot here. The Avalon company makes extremely high quality equalizers for finish studio work. I believe it is tubed. Utterly transparent at any rate.

The Hurricane has nice weight but lacks the sheer power. The VR4's are just reporting the facts. Getting a good SS output cd-player would help alot too.

The VR4 is one of the more dynamic speakers out there when properly fed and positioned. Just keep at it!
mknowles16
101 posts
 
Have you called Von Schweikert?

I had similiar bass deficiency in my VR-6 after carefully placing them according to the literature accompanying the speakers.

Their advice on the telephone differed wildly from the printed instructions. Bass improved dramatically when the speakers went into the corners as opposed to being out into the room.
tom_munro
162 posts
 
I own the VR-4 HSEs driven by JC-1s as well, and have preferences in music that are similar to yours.

After living with both single wire plus jumper, and a bi-wire setup I find that the soundstage is wider and deeper, and the presentation more open and dynamic when bi-wired. I'm using Ridge Street Audio Poiema bi-wires, which are also fast and open, but have more weight than your Au24s.

I think it would be worthwhile to continiue experimenting with different spikes. The narrow body 1.5" Audiopoints helped to increase the transient response/speed and overall coherence of my VR-4s These were a big improvement over the slower sounding 2" Audiopoints I originally tried.

I would also recommend plugging each of your JC-1s into a dedicated 20 amp outlet. I haven't done a lot of back and forth comparisons, but did notice a slight softening on complex transients when two JC-1s share the same 20 amp outlet.

One other tweak, albeit an expensive one, is to sit your JC-1s on Sistrum SP-101 platforms. These help to produce a very balanced and open presentation, with great detail and extension. No leaness or lack of weight as rpl... suggests, and they do make the soundstage taller.
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