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Front- vs. Down-Firing Subs and Amp Issue

A couple of assertions in the audio world have me perplexed as to how to select a subwoofer for my two-channel system.

Richard Hardesty makes the blanket statement in his Audio Perfectionist Journal that down-firing subs should never be used for high-end two-channel audio. Only front-firing subs are suitable for this application. I see, however, that some of the most-recommended subs on a'gon (Hsu TN series, ACI and REL come to mind) are down-firing (or up-firing in the case of Hsu.) Maybe the answer is that audiophile subs can't be purchased at the price point most mortals can afford, and the lower-priced subs just happen to be down-firing? Oh, Hardesty also says ported subs are not suitable for high-end audio; must go with a sealed box. Interesting.

The second assertion comes from Mike Barnes at nOrh, who says on his website that the plate amps used in 90% of subs today is crap and puts out only a fraction of power that is claimed. The sound that was rattling his windows and creating "earth-shaking bass" was not bass at all- it was distortion. He also states that he began tests in subwoofer development using the popular Peerless 12" woofer, which was literally shredded by a (non-plate) 150-watt amp.

So now I'm confused. Is it possible to buy a high-quality sub for relatively little money? I can't bring myself to spend $3-5k on a pair of speakers only to turn around and spend nearly that much on a sub. Oh, and then I hear that if I want the best possible configuration I need two subs at twice the price, making my subs more expensive than my speakers. Is this just a fact of life that I'll have to come to grips with if I don't want to buy speakers that go down to 20hz?

Thoughts?
aggielaw
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rauliruegas
13,104 posts
 
Dear Matchstikman : The horn subwoofers can be really great, the problem is that for a horn sub can handle the normal sub frecuency range: 100Hz down to 18Hz +.- 3db, it has to be enormous and very hard to match with a normal room size .

The ones that you mentioned there are no true subs: they go down only at 28Hz.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
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rauliruegas
13,104 posts
 
Dear Matchstikman: No, I don't. I don't have the opportunity to heard all the sealed subs that exist out there.

I own Velodyne's ( great performers ), but I hear: Paradigm, Talon, Vandersteen, Bagend, Dali, Sunfire. From these I don't like ( for music two channels aplication ) the Sunfire and the Dali, this one because it is not a true sub: it only goes down ( I think ) 25Hz. I heard others one but I can't remember if there were sealed.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
matchstikman
205 posts
 
How low must it go for proper music duplication? A low E on a bass goes down to 42hz. How low does a bass drum go for proper reproduction. A pipe organ can probably go very, very low, but I don't listen to much pipe organ.
lej1447
117 posts
 
I have a Hsu VTF2MK sub, 10" down firing w/ rear dual ports. According the to the manual, if I want to play loud, dual ports need to be opened. If I want deep bass, one port needs to be plugged up.
Back to the point, I guess that seal sub can achieve lower frequency than vented ports, given the driver size, the amplifier, the box dimension, and all else are the same. However, there are many variables in real life. This is only my 2c thought, and my HT setup is a 5.2.
gmood1
1,251 posts
 
Unless you listen too pipe organ music. A sub that reaches into the mid 20 hz region would satisfy most. As someone has stated earlier..the room does play a factor in extention. I use dual stereo 12 inch subs and have measured flat to 30 hz easily in my room at 70 to 75 dB. Meaning I still get down to 20 hz minus maybe a few dB without touching the volume knob.

I would imagine, most instrumental recordings don't get much lower than 35 to 40 hz on average. The woofers excursion plays a roll as well in frequency extention.The Adire XBL and Shiva drivers are some of the best around. Acoustic Vision subs. I'm willing to bet any one of these units will meet or exceed any boutique brand out there in overall performance. It's up to you if you want to pay the boutique prices. Look closely and you will notice the same parts used between these two companies.Just different finishes and cabinet thickness. Adire Rava II.
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