How would you desribe Von Schweiket VR-4jr sound?

Opalchip, being a trained musician and a lover of music all my life, I think I know of which I speak, and I don't agree with your incorrect and slanted interpretation of my comments.

So, your implication is that because I seek out and prefer recordings that are outstanding in sonics (& performance), I'm an 'audiophile' with a negative connotation, and can't possibly be a true music lover, or I'd be listening to flawed recordings.

I also listen to flawed recordings, but listening to the compression, grain, brightness, thinness, distortion, squashing, etc. -- has become something less tolerable to me over time. If you prefer a speaker that editorializes the sonics, fills out a thin, dead, flat, sizzly, equalized recording, and rolls off detail enough to make these recordings sound more palatable, that's your perogative. But don't claim this makes you a "musiclover" rather than an "audiophile."

Further, you criticize a brilliant engineer like Albert Von Schweikert for his engineering choices. What qualifications do you have in speaker design to so strongly criticize someone who knows speakers inside and out?

These types of posts turn a good thread into a pissing match & bashing exercise, rather than a positive interchange.

First off - it ain't me who's pissing. You bash people personally, and then hide behind the implication that if we respond we're turning this into a pissing match." Nice strategy, but, if you review my 2 posts I have not personally attacked anyone the way you are. To respond:

1. It was YOU who stated that non-audiophile, "flawed" recordings "SOUND BETTER" on other speakers. It wasn't me. Is "better" not better now? Your direct quote: "some audiophiles choose equipment that makes their favorite flawed recordings sound better, rather than carefully choose recordings that are musical".
And frankly, the reason I was sucked into this quagmire to begin with, is that with those particular remarks you were attempting to discredit other posters here who don't personally enjoy the JR's by questioning their equipment, music choices, and/or audiophile sensibilities. I objected to that - which was at the heart of my first post. Discrediting those who don't agree as probably having inferior systems or software is not cool. The original poster asked for our opinions on the speaker, not on what we imagine are each others' qualifications for liking or disliking them.

2. Nowhere did I imply "audiophile" to have a even a remotely negative connotation - that's in your imagination. If you think otherwise, then show us the direct quote. I posited that the audiophile's priorities are in a different order than the musicphile - which is a self-evident and accepted fact. You brought a value judgment to that, not me. And of course, no one is 100% audiophile and 0% musicphile or vice versa.

3. Albert Von Schweikert is obviously a knowledgable engineer and a very fine speaker designer. And a very astute marketer who crafts a sound that a lot of people like. So? We don't all have to personally prefer his choices. And I certainly DO know enough to know where the inevitable compromises lie. But that's theory - what matters is if we like how they sound enough to make them our primary "window" into the music, and some of us don't. No big deal, but according to you that must be because we don't know enough or don't have ears as good as yours.

Of course there is one other possibility - Have you for a moment considered that maybe we're hearing something you're not? If YOU don't hear something, does that mean it doesn't exist?

And by the way - have you asked anyone who LIKES the JR's what THEIR qualifications for liking them are? No? I didn't think so...

Post whatever you'd like - I'll refrain from any more posts to this thread.

Opalchip, As one of the owners who is not happy with the finish quality of the speaker, I will agree on that point. We are all buying what we enjoy, and I have no doubt any trained musician has a heck of a lot more knowledge as to what insturments should actually aound like. I guess there are several schools of thought as to what sounds most "realistic", and depending upon ones exposure, he or hshe chooses accordingly. Thanks for your perspective....interesting .
I enjoy the sound, and to each his own is what it's really all about.
Carl

Opalchip: Thank you for not posting again. You are an ignorant - bombastic fool. You contradict yourself and insult everyone on Audiogon by saying that "audiophiles" put equipment above music as a priority. What else is the equipment for but to listen to music?

You supposedly are an expert speaker designer who could teach VS how to better design speakers, you supposedly play several instruments, have had extensive musical training - I suppose your a Navy Seal, fighter pilot, and astronaut also.

Your post did nothing but put down VS's design, sound, finish, and you assumed that everyone who bought them is dumping them. Then, in your next post you say VS is a "very fine speaker designer".

I could go on and on about your inconsistencies, but I think it is transparent. By the way if this post was about any other piece of equipment that I was familiar with, I'd call you on your ignorant statements just the same. This has nothing to do with VS – I have no special interest in him or these speakers other than my enjoyment.

I buy CDs that I listen to only in my car, because they sound so horrible, but I like the music. We are trying to get closer to the music and bad recordings hide and distort the original music that was recorded. If your a music lover than I would think that would be important to you.

There were several criticisms that were posted above, and although I may not have noticed the same sounds from these speakers in my system, you could tell that they were legitimate and from actual experience. You say you’re a music lover, but all you’ve talked about is the design and other physical characteristics - everything but the sound.

If you would have said that it is a very revealing speaker that won't hide bad recordings or equipment - that would have been a contribution. But, when you say that it's for gear head audiophiles and not for music lovers, then go on to explain who fits in what box - then you just sound ignorant - and do a disservice to people seeking the truth.

Rob

Rob, Just read this thread including all of your posts. You sound like your ox has been severly gored, however I find little justification for the 'personal' nature of your posts which attack others, including Opalchip. So be it. You define yourself far more than you define others - your choice. :-(

But, in passing, I would ask you to reflect on and qualify one of your statements. Exactly what do you believe constitutes the "truth" that "people" are seeking? Assuming that you can define this "truth" how do you know when you are in its presence? And how do you know that "people" are seeking this "truth"? IMHO most folks are seeking that in which they find the greatest pleasure, but aren't so presumptious as to call it "truth" in any universal sense. Last I heard Diogenes was still walking about with his lamp.