Rogue Apollo v. VAC Phi 300.1a

I just wanted to say thanks to Musicmann1. That was an extremely useful and fair evaluation. Much better than the usual, my current gear is leaps and bounds better than anything else dribble. Great to read, as I've got some Thiels I'm considering pairing with the VAC.

Hi Mulveling,

Many thanks for your thorough and articulate reply. The Apollos seem like an excellent choice, and clearly the better value. If I were to go with the VAC 300.1a, I'd have to buy used, whereas new Apollos would be manageable for my budget.

I'm intrigued by the possibility of tube rolling the Rogue via 12AX7s, as I already have a pile of nice NOS tubes. OTOH, it can also be a relief to leave the voicing in the hands of the manufacturer, especially when VAC does it so well. After extensive rolling of 6922 varietals in my VAC preamp I still think it sounds best with the stock tubes. Have you tried different output tubes like KT88, KT120, and KT150? I assume your amps came with KT90.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of upgrading caps, etc., as Musicmann1 mentioned. But that, too, raises the question of voicing and the manufacturer's intention. Have you had the urge to change caps and wire, etc.? Is it something Rogue does readily?

Again, I really appreciate your informative post.

Bill

Hi Bill,
Sounds like we have similar price pain-points. I stretched on the analog source and speakers, but $20K for a single amp/preamp component is well past my comfort zone.

I remember rolling a few times in the VAC Ren III preamp, and going back to the stock line-stage tubes every time! The one exception was the 1st 12AX7 in the phono section; I ended up with a super low-noise 1950's RCA in there -- not a huge improvement, but some. The only other way I found to improve upon the Ren III was a Bob's Devices 1131 SUT instead of the built-in Lundahls. THAT upgrade was well worth the money (i.e. just get the MM stage on this unit)!

My Apollos did indeed come with KT90; the KT120 wasn't out at that time. The upgrade to KT120 was significant, though that's the only time I've rolled the power section. Needing a dozen of anything (at least 6 matched pairs) just to try a new tube will definitely give you pause. The EH KT90 sounds a bit anemic in bass, dry in the midrange, and harsh/grainy on top compared to KT120. I.e. they sound thin in comparison. It's actually a decent tube, but doesn't stand up to the KT120. There were times when my system was in the transition throes of some other upgrade or downsize, and got a little too warm/mushy -- at these times, I'd try the KT90 again, and sometimes earnestly enjoy them again, though the re-marriage never lasted once I got the rest of the system back in line.

I didn't think to ask Rogue when I got my Apollos & Hera II (bought a Hera I used and had upgraded to II status by Rogue), but apparently they'll upgrade parts if you request it. I'd expect their fees/markup to be quite reasonable, as they always are. I'm definitely intrigued by the prospect of say Mundrof gold/silver/oil coupling caps, silver wire, etc -- but with the shipping risk & hassles for these components, I'm going to need another reason to send 'em in. E.g. I think there's an intermittently sticky relay in my Hera II; if that gets worse, and I'm still gainfully employed, it may be time for a new relays AND Mundorfs.

Enjoy your decision making process; you've got two truly fine choices going here!

Mike

Hey Mike,

I think we have similar ears. I rolled out the stock tubes in my VAC phono section, too, and '50s RCA blackplates are my favorite NOS in there. It's a sleeper tube, IMO. Hard to find super-quiet ones, though. Surprisingly, among new production I like the Sovtek LPS in that application. Unlike other Sovteks I've tried the LPS are not too edgy. They are exceedingly quiet and settle into nice extension and balance with some break-in. I also use and like a lot a Bob's SUT, though not with my VAC as it is dual MC.

Thanks again for all the excellent info on Rogue!

Bill

Hey Bill,
Yep, the RCA 12AX7 black plate has been one of my favorites too. I'm currently running a pair in the Rogue Ares phono, though they sound good in the Apollos too. In addition to some of the usual suspects -- Mullard LP, Telefunken RP, RCA TMBP 5751, GE TMBP 5751 (the Mullard and GE being favored over the others in my system) -- I've also tried a few unorthodox tubes in the Apollos.

Some of the 12BH7's have made for a nice sub in the 12AU7 slots: earlier Sylvanias are great, later ones are bad; RCA's of nearly any vintage sound good, but can be too warm for many systems; Tung-Sol are nice but have a bit more zing on top than the others, Japanese round plates are good and seem well balanced. I'm also fond of the 1950's GE 5814 TM, also in place of 12AU7. And I've used red-label GE 12AY7 in the 12AX7 slot. And it's definitely the wrong tube in these slots, but I've accidentally placed the GE 5814 in the 12AX7 slots (it looks just like the GE 5751 in dim lighting), and it sounded WAY better than it should. Lots of options and flexibility with these amps!