Tube Amp for Martin Logan Speakers


Hi, I love tube sound through my Martin Logan Aerius-i fronts and Cinema-i center. I currently have a Butler 5150 which is a hybrid, but it busted on me and would cost $700 to fix. I've had china stereo tube amps that were pretty good and gave true tube sound, but not enough drive for higher volumes. I live in condo, so not like I can blast music anyways but still. I got the Butler because I wanted 5 channel tube sound for home theatre (The piercing sound from my Denon 3801 receiver was not pleasant to my ears). It appears there are only three multi-channel tube amps around, from Mcintosh, Butler 5150, and Dared DV-6C. The latter two are hybrids, and the last one was one of the worst tube amps i've ever heard. I have no clue why 6Moons gave the Dared a 2010 award, but maybe it's because it produces only 65W.

So since multichannel tube amps are hard to come by, and they tend to be hybrid, I was thinking maybe it would be best to get three true tube monoblocks to power my fronts. Thing is I wonder if they will be underpowered for my speakers, and not sure which ones are decent for the price. Maybe China made ones would suffice, and they still go for pretty expensive price. I'm wondering if anybody knows of a decent powerful tube monoblock that is affordable, because I can't pay $3000 per block. or maybe best to just repair my Butler. Thing is, I'm not confident that it is reliable. The tubes are soldered in which is weird, and i've taken it to a couple repair guys who both said that the design is not good, because it's very tight inside and more susceptible to being fried from DC voltage areas. it's too sensitive.

Any suggestions for tube monoblocks, even if china made ones? the holy grail for me would be Mcintosh tube amp, but they are hard to come by. Thanks.

smurfmand70
Someone should sign up to do a "paradigm" shootout, ie the best of voltage versus the best of power paradigms. Of course, finding an unbiased doer or doers for something like this could be the hardest part.

I would volunteer someday, perhaps after I retire eventually, although I doubt I will have the financial resources needed to put into two complete and alternate SOTA systems that could both truly push things to their limits. :-)
Or ... are you saying the relationship between an amp's output impedance and an ESL's varying impedance plot is simply not a relevant consideration to the ESL's sonic output because of some unique or different electrical characteristic peculiar to ESLs??

As I have pointed out before, with all ESLs, the impedance curve is not a function of a driver in a box. In addition, the impedance curve is also not the efficiency curve.

IOW, the speaker has the same efficiency at all frequencies. Note that I used the word 'efficiency' as opposed to 'sensitivity'. I am restating my second paragraph above slightly, but if I had used 'sensitivity' what would be happening is that the impedance plot would also be a sensitivity plot.

The reason is that the speaker's impedance plot is based on a capacitor.

The result is that an amplifier that operates in the Voltage Paradigm will make too much power at high frequencies due to the low impedance, and usually not enough power at low frequencies for exactly the same reason.

For this reason you will find that a lot of ML users that have solid state amps likely have them fairly close to the wall, which gets some bass reinforcement. Most ESLs, like any panel speaker, should be 5-6 feet from the wall.

I think now you see why the ZERO is so useful when dealing with this speaker. But I will explain: if you use a solid state amplifier one of the really likely results is that while detailed, it will also be noticeably brighter than reality. I've experienced this first hand many times.

Now if you use a Power Paradigm amplifier, as Al has pointed out, the 'output impedance' of the amp will interact with the low impedance of the speaker at high frequencies and you will experience a roll-off. This is why many tube amplifiers (in fact most tube amps) sound a little dark on that speaker if not outright rolled off. Those with negative feedback will of course sound less so (but of course negative feedback causes all amplifiers to sound bright due to trace amounts of odd ordered harmonics being introduced). Now if you just want things to sound natural with no roll off and no brightness, what to do??

That is where the ZERO is handy. It raises the impedance of the load enough that a tube amp can begin to operate within its constant power region. In this way you get high frequency speed and extension, while at the same time getting bass extension and impact.

A long time ago ML made a speaker called the CLS I. Unlike the newer iterations, it had a more traditional ESL impedance plot (meaning it was higher impedance like the older Quads) and it was a breeze to play it with a tube amplifier. As we all know (or should know) transistor amps don't make a lot of power into higher impedances (+16 and +32 ohms), IOW it may well be that such an amp might only express about 1/4 of its 8 ohm power. It is for this reason that a 100-watt tube amp can keep up with a 400-watt transistor amp on Sound Labs BTW.

Anyway, ML realized that if they were to sell speakers to the solid state market, which at the time was about 90% of the amplifier market, they were going to have to do something. The result was that succeeding speakers had much lower impedances, with the 0.5 ohm 20KHz impedance you now see. The ZERO corrects this issue so tubes can be practical on the speaker.
You'd be far better off saving the $1140us for the Zero's and putting towards the right amp or speakers, instead of masking the problem with the Zero's, which itself has it's own set of problems.

Cheers George