2. amps-preamps
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Upgrade advice needed

Let me tell you my story.

Piece by piece, I've been gradually building an audiophile quality system.

My system is a Toshiba Laptop w/ J River playing FLAC files into a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2. The laptop is dedicated exclusively as a music server. I've stripped most of the background processes from the Laptop and disconnected from the internet. The only external connections are the USB line to the DAC and a Mouse connected by the other USB connector

I don't have a preamp, the W4S DAC has onboard volume control.

I'm using a NAD 356 BEE Integrated amp but bypassing the preamp module and routing the DAC input directly to the power amp. The speakers are Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands. I use LAT International SS-800 MkII 6 ft speaker cords and Pangea AC-14, 14 Gauge after market power cords for the NAD amp and the DAC. I installed Albert Porter Outlets. I do not have any power conditioners.

I live in an apartment so room treatments and dedicated circuit wires are out.

Musical tastes are primarily chamber music and some classic jazz of 1950s and 60s.

I listen near field - 6 feet from speakers and prefer moderate volume. I don't have much interest in Home theater or television in general.

My biggest source of frustration is the reproduction of violins and pianos. I recently ripped a CD of Bachs Violin Sonatas by Arthur Grumiaux. The sound is so harsh a cannot listen for more then 10 minutes.

My issue with pianos is the percussive aspect of the instrument seems to overwhelm the musical tone. I have a collection of Chopin Polonaises and it sounds like the artist is playing the piano keys with a hammer.

Other instruments sound better -- Cellos, brass, woodwinds, vocals.

I'm wondering what the next step in my upgrade evolution should be. I been intrigued by the First Watt line of amps. They seem to be a good fit for me. But, I don't know, will that address my issues with violins?

I could spend up to 5K now and, perhaps a year from now, I could swing another 5K for the next component

I'd welcome any suggestions.
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mapman's avatar
mapman
22,588 posts
 
CJ,

Thing is when something is not working as hoped and you have options in-house already, try them first before buying more.

That includes addressing room acoustics by tweaking speaker placement and orientation.

There are usually many things to try, including different component configurations.

Once you find the best combo with what you have, then you can access how to make it better, if still even needed.

DO not neglect power conditioning as Elizabeth suggested either in your case, in that this may be missing at present and usually only helps and not hurts if done right. Its particularly relevant for the common issues you cite with treble, but generally a good thing overall.

Once all option are investigated, and power conditioning addressed, then a tube or two upstream might be the next thing to consider, if still needed, but by then it could be a non-issue.
austinbob
235 posts
 
I agree that integrating the W4S as a DAC only makes sense. I also agree that all copper cables may be a better fit (it was in my case).

The quick review I read about your speakers are that they can handle up to 250 watts and I note the NAD puts out 80. While they're moderately efficient (91 db sensitivity), they may relish more power? Also, if I'm not correct, you're mating $5000 speakers with an $800 integrated so that may be a worthwhile upgrade path.

Just my 2 cents.
newbee
4,790 posts
 
Before you start chasing a solution to your problem by replacing electronic's (or speakers, even) take a few moments to insure that your problem can't be reduced substantially by speaker placement re the walls (1st reflection points) and the amount of toe in you are using. Perhaps you might even post what your set up looks like to see if anyone has specific suggestions.

The easiest thing to check out is the toe in - toe your speakers in so that the axis crosses well in front of your seat and see what happens, especially in the highs.

Another thought that crosses my mind is that these speakers might not be as suitable for near field listening as some others. Perhaps the listening position is too close for the speakers to integrate properly and you are getting an unbalanced sound with emphasis on the highs which have a shorter signal path to your ears. You can check this out by moving you listening position back to 9 ot 10 feet (even though you might no be able to live with it in your apartment due to size etc. At least you might learn something about your speakers.

FWIW, you have a lot of money at your disposal to solve your problem - if it is not a speaker/set up problem my first attack would be to replace your amp/pre amp with a tubed integrated amp known for warmth, such as the Primaluna Dialogue stuff. The only down side to that is, if you are really critical, finding the right tubes to establish synergy (the right tone) with your source and speakers.
mechans
3,048 posts
 
I mostly agree with Liz on this, use Copper for all your cables and use a tube power amp, not just pre-amp! Ask the First Watt forum people for the warmest variant out there if you really want to try that. Not all of them were warm and fuzzy. Good luck and listening.
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
there are so many things you can do. Since none of us are there it's impossible for any of us to fully know what to do. PUtting a real pre back into the equation makes more sense starting than most anything other than checking your room and placement. Personally, I'd go and buy a turntable for the type of music you listen to. Not to be a jerk, but your amplification has maxed out. That's the reality. SUre, they are fine to start off with, but as you see there are too many trade offs with the NAD or the Wyre gear. I was running the NAD on Proac Super towers with top of the line MIT gear, because I was told that I had to get remote into my system as I was using Quicksilver silver monos and full function Quick pre. The tubes sounded awesome and the NAD was, well, NAD. It collapsed the stage and everything else was ragged. Once I put my new Ayre into the system, it fixed most everything and made the speakers sing even better than before with tubes.

Bottom line is that you need to put a system together and not the best audio products according to a magazine or what we posters tell you is best. Synergy is what makes systems work and anyone who's been around this block will tell you that. I've heard those speakers sound awesome a few weeks ago with the Ayre AX7e integrated and all Audio Quest cables. It was even digital I heard it with, but when we put on a simple Rega 3 it all just relaxed and sang. I don't even love the Rega, but it relaxed the sound and I got into the music instead of listening to components. Good luck and let us know what you do and how it goes
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