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Objective vs. Placebo relating to system changes

I am continually baffled by the number of people that are convinced that changes to power cords, speaker wires, interconnects, etc. in their systems result is objectively real changes. While I won't go so far as saying that making these changes absolutely doesn't make a difference, I would love to have the resources to challenge people prove it to me and test it with my own ears.

Here's what I would do if time and financial resources were no object (I'm visualizing retired millionaires that are audiophiles).

I would build a listening room where the only components in the listening space were the speakers and the speaker cables coming through opening in the wall where the rest of the system was setup. The idea would be to allow the test subject the opportunity to create their system of choice and then have the opportunity to become very familiar with the system by spending hours listening. Then I would let them know when I was going to start changing different components on them on a very random basis and they should report any changes that they heard so we could link the changes to any potential changes on the other side of the wall.

Here's a short list of things that I'd try:

(1) I would replace the upgraded power cord with the stock unit.
(2) I would install or remove isolation (e.g. Nordost sort kones) devices from a component.
(3) I would replace interconnects with basic quailty products.
(4) I would replace well "broken-in" cables with otherwise identical new ones.

Depending on the results of doing these test slowly over a period of time I would consider swapping out some of the more major components to see how obvious a macro change was if the listener wasn't aware that a change had been made.

I can tell the difference between new and broken in speakers (on ones that I'm familiar with) so I know this break-in is very real and would also not be at all surprised with differences from amplifiers and analog sources being obvious. I'm not as sure about digital sources.

So the question is, what components in your system would you be confident enough to bet, say $1,000, that you could identify that something changes if it was swapped out?

In my system I am sure that I could identify a change in amplification or speakers, but highly doubt that I could do the same with any cables, isolation devices, or digital sources. Maybe I just reduced myself to being a non-audiophile with low-fi gear?
mceljo
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,586 posts
 
Stirring up the mice again, eh?

I am confident I can tell when my analog ICs change between the 3 I have tried at least: dnm, MIT, Harmonic Tech. Each is clearly radically different in design. Not all are so much so. I would not say I could always tell a difference, though one might exist.

I have not had much success hearing differences with different digital ICs or even with different digital sources of same resolution into the same DAC.

I think I have heard difference using power conditioner.

I use a decent quality power cord and am done with it. Not looking to hear any differences even if they exist.

That's the extent of my dabbling. Once I have things sounding just right, tend to stop dabbling for the most part and just enjoy listening.
zd542
5,339 posts
 
I have to agree. You really don't want an answer. For whatever reason some people just "don't like" certain aspects of high end audio. Don't ask me why. But they go on a crusade of never ending questions that they know can't be answered or dealt with in any real way.

"I would love to have the resources to challenge people prove it to me and test it with my own ears."

No resources will ever be enough for you. There will always be some essential element that you must have, and that you won't be able to attain, in order to conduct a proper test.

"I would build a listening room where the only components in the listening space were the speakers and the speaker cables coming through opening in the wall where the rest of the system was setup."

Why not just hang a curtain (or something similar) in front of your system so you can't see it. Then you can just have a friend swap out components. It will be a lot cheaper than building a whole new room. This is something you should have the resources to do right now.

"Here's what I would do if time and financial resources were no object (I'm visualizing retired millionaires that are audiophiles)."

Here's another example of why you don't want an answer. You need to be a retired millionaire with lots of time on your hands? Well if that's the case, its another way to get you off the hook. If you're not a retired millionaire audiophile, there's no way you can conduct a proper test. I know cables aren't cheap, but how do you think the rest of us non millionaire audiophiles test cables? The answer is simple. We find a way.

"In my system I am sure that I could identify a change in amplification or speakers, but highly doubt that I could do the same with any cables, isolation devices, or digital sources. Maybe I just reduced myself to being a non-audiophile with low-fi gear?"

Or you are just talking yourself out of a way to get some answers. Why try, its hopeless?!! Just think, if you are reduced to being a non-audiophile with low-fi gear, you have no place to go but up.


mattmiller's avatar
mattmiller
1,506 posts
 
I could surely tell if my preamp was switched and most likely my CD player as well. Not sure on the rest tho. Speakers seems most obvious 1st choice.
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
Zd542 - I realize that I'm asking somewhat unanswerable questions, but the intent is to make people think about how sure they are about the difference they hear.

I have Nordost Sort Kones under my SACD player and after several attempts to prove to myself that they did or did not make a difference I left them in and chock up the "improvement" that I convinced myself I heard to being primarily placebo. Even after coming to that conclusion I never took them back for a refund, which I could have done, and have never removed them from my system. What I am convinced about is that if my wife took them out and I couldn't visually tell the difference I'd never know.

I'm also convinced myself that I heard a difference between a $7 pair of hardware store speaker wires and a $2,000 pair something fancy, but it certainly wasn't a $1,997 improvement.

I am an engineer so my gears are always turning and thinking about this stuff.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
10-31-13: Mceljo
I am an engineer.

Say no more..nudge, nudge...wink, wink
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