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Objective vs. Placebo relating to system changes

I am continually baffled by the number of people that are convinced that changes to power cords, speaker wires, interconnects, etc. in their systems result is objectively real changes. While I won't go so far as saying that making these changes absolutely doesn't make a difference, I would love to have the resources to challenge people prove it to me and test it with my own ears.

Here's what I would do if time and financial resources were no object (I'm visualizing retired millionaires that are audiophiles).

I would build a listening room where the only components in the listening space were the speakers and the speaker cables coming through opening in the wall where the rest of the system was setup. The idea would be to allow the test subject the opportunity to create their system of choice and then have the opportunity to become very familiar with the system by spending hours listening. Then I would let them know when I was going to start changing different components on them on a very random basis and they should report any changes that they heard so we could link the changes to any potential changes on the other side of the wall.

Here's a short list of things that I'd try:

(1) I would replace the upgraded power cord with the stock unit.
(2) I would install or remove isolation (e.g. Nordost sort kones) devices from a component.
(3) I would replace interconnects with basic quailty products.
(4) I would replace well "broken-in" cables with otherwise identical new ones.

Depending on the results of doing these test slowly over a period of time I would consider swapping out some of the more major components to see how obvious a macro change was if the listener wasn't aware that a change had been made.

I can tell the difference between new and broken in speakers (on ones that I'm familiar with) so I know this break-in is very real and would also not be at all surprised with differences from amplifiers and analog sources being obvious. I'm not as sure about digital sources.

So the question is, what components in your system would you be confident enough to bet, say $1,000, that you could identify that something changes if it was swapped out?

In my system I am sure that I could identify a change in amplification or speakers, but highly doubt that I could do the same with any cables, isolation devices, or digital sources. Maybe I just reduced myself to being a non-audiophile with low-fi gear?
mceljo
zd542
5,339 posts
 
Mceljo,

This really has nothing to do with science. (I'm just responding to your post's, not everyones.)

"I have Nordost Sort Kones under my SACD player and after several attempts to prove to myself that they did or did not make a difference I left them in and chock up the "improvement" that I convinced myself I heard to being primarily placebo. Even after coming to that conclusion I never took them back for a refund, which I could have done, and have never removed them from my system. What I am convinced about is that if my wife took them out and I couldn't visually tell the difference I'd never know."

Thats a psychological issue, and nothing more. It doesen't have a thing to do with audio. If you spent money on those cones that didn't make a difference but didn't return them, that's just silly. You're supporting the same thing your condemning. If the vendor was willing to take them back, they're standing behind what they sell.

"I'm also convinced myself that I heard a difference between a $7 pair of hardware store speaker wires and a $2,000 pair something fancy, but it certainly wasn't a $1,997 improvement."

Same thing here. It has nothing to do with audio. If you didn't see the value in the cable, you shouldn't have bought it. It doesn't take an engineer to figure that one out.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,589 posts
 
"all that I ask is don't lie to me."

I pretty much agree with that. Trust is the key! Hard to trust liars, charlatans, obfuscators, etc. Luckily, trustworthy people are out there if you are smart enough to be able to find them. High end audio is probably no worse or better than most other "boutique" type industries in this regard, if that is any consolation. At least there is some basis for the products in science and engineering that one can bank on even if it does not ever completely tell the whole story.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,589 posts
 
" If you are indeed looking to upgrade, you need to quit looking for excuses and decide to dedicate a fair amount of money towards it."

I'd dedicate some time to experiment and learn as needed yourself first. Buy used, look for "value", experiment, keep or move on as needed without taking an unnecessary large financial hit in the process. Throwing money at the problem might work if you have it, but you might find you can do a lot better for less if like anything based on technology you do your homework first.
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
Zd542 - The point of my admission of sort kones and speakers wires was intended to give some credibility that I don't "condem" people for purchasing upgrades and have myself purchased a few things that I can't even convince myself 100% that it's real vs. placebo.

I realize that I'll never convince you that my sole/primary purpose isn't to stir the pot (admittedly I don't shy away from asking something that I know will stir the pot), but in every thread like this I gain information that I value.
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
If you think that some cones and wires are going to make your system sound like it cost $30,000.00, you need a reality check. If you think that some cones and wires will make a $30,000.00 sound better, you're in the ballpark.
I agree with Krell man. Will the Nordost Sort Kones or $2000 speaker cables make a difference in a very high end system properly set up in a treated room? Absolutely. Will they make a difference on a shelf system stereo just sitting in a room somewhere? Absolutely Not. A system's overall capability is a definite factor in determining the amount you will hear with a change. Also, the synergy between components, speakers, cables, etc can affect changes, good and bad.

Mceljo, I see in your pictures the speakers are against the back wall. Do you pull them out a couple of feet when you listen? Also, I'll be curious to hear how the tube amp works for you. Your speakers are 8 ohm with a dip to 3 ohm, not the ideal for a tube amp. It is a possibility they may sound better on the 4 ohm tap, so try both 8 and 4.
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