Is it possible to have Good Imaging close to wall

I am sorry Mapman but you are mistaken. As Onhwy61 is saying, you are confusing acoustic reflections contained in the recorded signal with those reflections produced by playback in a room.

To reproduce the spatial information recorded by the sound engineers it is not required to have reflections in the room. In fact the exact opposite is true, i.e. the less artefacts your room is inducing the better you will be able to hear the spatial information recorded on a disc.

I’ll make an analogy with the bass (which is also affected significantly by the room) to explain why you are wrong when you write:

So the reflected sound of teh room during playback is needed in order to attempt to best reproduce what might have been heard live rather than just what is in a 2 channel stereo recording.

Of course playback room acoustics will be different than what existed during recording, so the two may never be exactly the same, but can come pretty close when both are similar.

What you are saying is equivalent to saying that in order to have good bass one needs to excite the modes of his/her room, and in order to obtain the best bass performance one need to excite in his/her room the same modes that have been excited in the room where the recording was made. Of course, that is not true. To hear the most accurate bass possible in one’s room, one has to optimise the position of the speakers and listening chair so no major constructive and/or distractive interference occurs at the listening position. (Assuming that one’s speakers are capable to properly reproduce the bass on the recording, the best performance is achieved when one succeeds to completely eliminate the artefacts induced by the room - which of course is not really possible).

When it comes to soundstage and stereo image, the room induces even more artefacts than in the case of bass. For example it can: 1) make a bigger than life soundstage, 2) kill the soundstage completely, 3) make a 1-, 2- or 3-dimensional sound stage, 4) make the size of the instruments bigger than in the real life, 5) kill the stereo image, 6) shift the stereo image to the left or right, etc.

Clearly, very many things can go wrong because of the room and the best way to avoid all these problems is to try to "get rig" of the room. if possible try the following experiment:

First listen a recording with rich spatial information on a good pair of headphones. You will clearly hear a large soundstage and pinpoint stereo image. (You may like the same recording via your speakers better because it has a large sound stage but that is an artefact induced by the room. Of course, there is no problem with that, many people like the bass reinforcement caused by the room which can be beneficial sometimes.)

then listen the same recording via:

1) A pair of monitors in "near-field" mode with the monitors situated as far as possible far from any room boundaries. (This is what the Cardas method is trying to achieve.)

or

3) A pair of horns by sitting not too far from them, i.e. far enough that all drives are well integrated.

I am very sure you will end up with very similar results, i.e. a beautiful and well defined soundstage and stereo image that have been produced with no (or minimal) secondary reflections.

Finally, regarding your experience with the MBL system, I can imagine that under well controlled conditions and with the right recording they can create a wonderful effect as our ears like to hear (or better said are used to hear) reflections. However, I doubt very much that the MBLs are able to pull that trick or to sound “accurate” in every room with every recording and with every type of music.

"beautiful and well defined soundstage and stereo image that have been produced with no (or minimal) secondary reflections."

Minimal, perhaps if done right. None, well, take things outside with no walls and no room acoustics and reflections and see what you get.

Again, in most any room, as long as early reflections are managed properly, and things are set up well in general, you will get some decent imaging and soundstage most likely, enough to suit some tastes perhaps. But I doubt it will come anywhere close to a pair of excellent omnis like MBL set up with room to breathe properly.

I do agree also that cues in the recording and the effects of teh room acoustics are two different yet related things that work together or not to various degrees.

So I Do not think either of us is "wrong" necessarily, its more again a matter of perspective and expectations in regards to soundstage and imaging. SOme might not think more is better, even if done well, or vice versa.

My own personal reference is live music when I hear it. I want my recordings to sound like that whenever possible. Its a simulation, granted, but thats why they call it a recording. Its not the real thing.

Here in the Nethelands people in audio Always find the demos with MBL Omnis one of the worst of the whole show.

Often it sounds harsh. It does not come even close to the 3 Dimensional stage I can create. People from the business and many audio lovers overhere even don't take it serious.

I create a 3 dimensional stage created for a big part by the crossovers. I also prefer a ribbon tweeter for over any dometweeter. Because it gives me more decay and a larger and wider stage.

There is another difference; When I compare a Monitor Audio Platinum loudspeaker with the C series from Dynaudio for example; the Platinum can image the stage a lot sharper and touchable.

A ribbontweeter also makes the stage infront of the speaker bigger.

In 16 years of time I tested many amps. depth is a very important part I test. That is why my interests are only in amps which can build a wide and deep stage.

When clients want to buy a 2 dimensional brand. I will tell hi or she that he or she limits him or her self in sound quality. But when he or she still wants to buy, it is fine with me.

IME the mbls often sound harsh because of the electronics. I have had the opportunity to play the speakers with electronics I knew and they performed quite well- not harsh at all. But its been a different matter when I hear them at shows!

They are not harsh at all when set up right.

THey are hard to set up right. SOund great in dealer showroom. Same setup by same dealer below par at shows.

TO hear them set up well, go to United Home Audio in Annapolis Junction, MD.

CAll first to make sure they are still there, I heard them there a couple years back. Nothing else I have heard comes close in terms of soundstage depth and location of players in that large space.