Sloped baffle

07-07-14: Bifwynne
.....I still wonder out loud whether speaker inductance as a function of frequency response in fact remains constant within the speaker's pass band. Indeed ... even if speaker inductance remains constant as a function of frequency, wouldn't that also impact phase coherency?

Bifwynne, here is some more material for you to read that will address the phase coherency question you had yesterday (7/6/14):
http://greenmountainaudio.com/speaker-time-phase-coherence/
this is an article that Roy J wrote for Audio Ideas Guide back in 1997. A small cut & paste from this article:

"The causes of phase distortion

Time delay is the natural consequence of making something vibrate, whether it's electric fields or material objects. In speakers, only three things can cause time delays:

◾The moving elements (the drivers -- woofers, midranges, tweeters);

◾Their distances through the air to the listener; and

◾The crossover circuit.

Let's go over the cause of motion-based time delays first. Different drivers (round, square, flat) have an inherent amount of phase shift, related only to each one's natural resonant frequency. One analogy is a weight hanging from a spring. If you move the other end of the spring up and down very slowly, the spring does not stretch and the weight follows your motion exactly. The phase shift between your applied force and the weight's motion is zero. The moving system is in a 'minimum-phase' mode. If you move more rapidly, the spring starts to stretch and contract -- and the weight no longer follows your driving force. It moves with a different phase.
......"

there's a lot more to read but I believe that you should read the section "The Causes of Phase Distortion" to answer your question....

I have never heard Roy's speakers, but I would love to, I've never seen any speaker that was plus or minus just a few degrees throughout its frequency range... It would probably be easier to read a book than try to get all the info from a forum, so much skipped over, so many half truths... very difficult... We have only really discussed baffle step compensation... I have tried several times to electrically time align a woofer rather that the tweeter. It can be done, but throws so many other things out of wack that I've never really been successful.
One thing that I would say... it is possible to get a great sounding speaker without very good alignment, but most speakers that "just aren't right" do not have good alignment characteristics.... Any speaker that has very good alignment characteristics, you will find very listenable, it may not be your cup of tea, but it will do most things well. At least that is my experience.
Tim

Thanks again Bombaywalla. I caught the article. It doesn't speak to the impact of the speaker's electrical characteristics on phase coherence. Maybe it's just a non-issue.

@Tim ... based on the various posts in this thread, I gather there are not very many conventional speaker brands that are time and phase coherent. Vandersteen, Thiel and GMA come to mind.

As to your point about flat impedance and phase angle plots, take a look at the stats on the Magico S5 here:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1043:nrc-measurements-magico-s5-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Not saying the S5 is an easy speaker to drive because its impedance plot ranges for the most part between 3 and 4 ohms and its phase angle goes negative in the low bass, but overall pretty flat plots. I think my ARC Ref 150 could drive it ok off its 4 ohm taps, especially since my amp has a pretty muscular power supply - 1040 joules. OTOH, I would not try to drive the S5s with a low power SET amp. :)

I find the phase coherence issue to be extremely interesting. It's frustrating because without doing critical listening, it's hard to get one's "ears" around the issue.

Thanks Psag for bringing this important issue to our attention. Just not sure what to do with it. :)

BIF

Those S5 plots are actually quite smooth. A sign of well matched, quality drivers, a good cabinet and unobtrusive crossovers. That phase dip in the bass is fairly standard and hard to avoid. It's from the woofer, not the xover. Other than the low impedance, it would be a relatively easy load. Of course, there's always ways to make those plots look better but it might not sound any better.

Ngjockey ... I concur with your take on the S5 stats and build quality. As far as the X-over is concerned, not sure what you mean by unobtrusive, but I'd be willing to bet we're talking about 2nd and 3rd order X-overs here.

Fyi, I traded e mails with Magico tech folks about phase coherency. They freely admitted that the S5 is not phase coherent, but that attribute was a trade off in order to achieve other design objectives.

Gotta give these pups a listen!