Size of Midrange Drivers

08-24-14: Dweller
Hey! Tannoy! You've only been making speakers since 1926 so take some more lessons because somebody on this web-site thinks you and I are "confused".

Stop making your $55,000 Kingdom Royal until you get straightened out and start using 5" midrange drivers!

(dang this is fun!)...

Dweller, you asked the question & when info has been given to you, you don't want to learn! There seems to be disbelief on your part. Why ask the question if you don't want to learn??? Just curious to know...

This info from 2 websites: tannoyspeakers.com & tannoy.com (it looks like you haven't spent much time reading it..)

The first Dual Concentric loudspeaker, designated the monitor black, and designed by Tannoy's chief engineer at the time, Ronnie H. Rackham, appeared at the London Radio Show in 1947.

It was in 1926 when Guy R. Fountain (GRF) perfected a new type of electric rectifier with the aim of designing a charger more suitable for use in the home.
I really don't know when Tannoy built it's 1st speaker but it wasn't in 1926.

the following info is about the Tannoy Kingdom Royal loudspeaker from Tannoy's website. Read a little about the Kingdom Royal's drive unit - scroll to the middle of that webpage & look under "Drive Unit":

The crossover to the DC’s high frequency unit occurs at an exceptionally low 700Hz to ensure the majority of the vocal region is handled by the new tweeter.

The Tannoy Kingdom Royal has NO MIDRANGE driver contrary to what you seemed to allude to.
Their new HF compression driver tweeter is doing all the midrange.
Like you seemed to indicate - Tannoy is not foolish & they wouldn't put a 12" midrange! The 12" unit does upper bass to 700Hz & the lower bass unit does the bottom-most octave.

You know, Shakey might have a very valid point.....

Bombaywalla --

What's to learn, exactly - that 12" units can't do midrange? To clarify: 700Hz er certainly part of the midrange (indeed the lower part of the central mids), and voices typically contain a lot of energy even lower in the frequency spectrum. Upper bass sits below 300Hz, not at a high 700Hz.

12" units can do wonderful midrange, but you wouldn't expect an 88-90dB, fs 20-30Hz hifi bass ditto to do this job; it's supposed, or certainly restricted to do bass only. There are other 12" units to come by with higher efficiency, higher fs, and lighter cone movements, and there's good reason to seek out their qualities in the mids department as opposed to the smaller diameter alternatives - depending of course on the design they are to be implemented.

What's to learn is oftentimes to unlearn, keep an open mind, and be willing to go against accepted (read: rigid) norms.

The Tannoy Kingdom Royal has NO MIDRANGE driver contrary to what you seemed to allude to.

Their new HF compression driver tweeter is doing all the midrange.
Like you seemed to indicate - Tannoy is not foolish & they wouldn't put a 12" midrange! The 12" unit does upper bass to 700Hz & the lower bass unit does the bottom-most octave.

700 Hz wavelength is over 19" long, so a 12" driver wouldn't even be close to beaming. Tannoy knows what they're doing, but apparently you refuse to catch on, even with multiple corroborating explanations.

Fool that I am, I'll give it one more go:

In the '70s I owned a pair of Altec-Lansing 9845a professional studio monitors. They had the typical Voice of the Theater (VOTT) components--15" woofer and compression-driven aluminum horn. Around that same time I worked at a stereo store where we carried Altec, including some home versions of the VOTT.

But they sounded significantly different. My pro audio VOTT crossed over at 500 Hz, which is a 27" wavelength and well outside the beaming frequency (900 Hz) of a 15" wavelength. The home version, however, crossed over at 1200 Hz, which is an 11" wavelength. That means that *that* 15" woofer was beaming from 900 Hz on up past the 1200 Hz crossover frequency. And you could hear the difference--a kind of "cupped hands" coloration in the crossover frequency area.

I think the difference in crossover frequency was due to the pro version having a better, more expensive and rugged compression driver that could play lower. The cheaper home version crossed over at 1200 Hz for power handling. These days, no one in their right mind would cross over a 15" woofer that high without a wave guide, whizzer cone, or at least a phase plug.

Unaware at the time about beaming, dispersion, and in-room power response, we typically figured that the horn was making the music sound horn-like. Yet my pro monitors had no such coloration (in fact, they kicked ass!). I also found that this suckout wasn't very noticeable when playing jazz combos and larger scale instrumental music, but was immediately noticeable on solo voice. From that point on--as much as I like instrumental music--I can't consider a speaker without hearing what it does with vocals.

So there's a little more anecdotal evidence for the impact of beaming on an inappropriate crossover point.

To clarify: 700Hz er certainly part of the midrange (indeed the lower part of the central mids), and voices typically contain a lot of energy even lower in the frequency spectrum.

no dispute here Phusis. I was not stating otherwise. Merely stating that the bulk of the midrange freq is handled by their new tweeter. Yes, freq below 700Hz is handled by the 12" mid driver which seems to be more suited to the lower freq. Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point.

What's to learn is oftentimes to unlearn, keep an open mind, and be willing to go against accepted (read: rigid) norms.

good advice Phusis. I keep an open mind while keeping Physics in my mind at the same time. Hopefully you do the same....
Timlub tried to explain some of the physics to you but it went over your head. I tried too in my very 1st post & it looks like that went over your head as well.
Well, you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink...

700 Hz wavelength is over 19" long, so a 12" driver wouldn't even be close to beaming. Tannoy knows what they're doing, but apparently you refuse to catch on, even with multiple corroborating explanations.

johnnyb53, I get it. the point is do the likes of you & Dweller get it?
Once again: Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point. Hopefully you got that?
thanks.

johnnyb53, I get it. the point is do the likes of you & Dweller get it?
Once again: Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point. Hopefully you got that?
thanks.

That was sloppy editing on my part. I was totally agreeing with you. Where I said "apparently you refuse to catch on..." I was addressing Dweller, not you.

I was trying to corroborate your assertion about the 700 Hz crossover, that it's well below the frequency where a 12" driver would start beaming, and that the Tannoy 12" driver functions more as a woofer than as a midrange. I don't usually get that jumbled up in pronouns and their antecedants.