Size of Midrange Drivers

The Tannoy Kingdom Royal has NO MIDRANGE driver contrary to what you seemed to allude to.

Their new HF compression driver tweeter is doing all the midrange.
Like you seemed to indicate - Tannoy is not foolish & they wouldn't put a 12" midrange! The 12" unit does upper bass to 700Hz & the lower bass unit does the bottom-most octave.

700 Hz wavelength is over 19" long, so a 12" driver wouldn't even be close to beaming. Tannoy knows what they're doing, but apparently you refuse to catch on, even with multiple corroborating explanations.

Fool that I am, I'll give it one more go:

In the '70s I owned a pair of Altec-Lansing 9845a professional studio monitors. They had the typical Voice of the Theater (VOTT) components--15" woofer and compression-driven aluminum horn. Around that same time I worked at a stereo store where we carried Altec, including some home versions of the VOTT.

But they sounded significantly different. My pro audio VOTT crossed over at 500 Hz, which is a 27" wavelength and well outside the beaming frequency (900 Hz) of a 15" wavelength. The home version, however, crossed over at 1200 Hz, which is an 11" wavelength. That means that *that* 15" woofer was beaming from 900 Hz on up past the 1200 Hz crossover frequency. And you could hear the difference--a kind of "cupped hands" coloration in the crossover frequency area.

I think the difference in crossover frequency was due to the pro version having a better, more expensive and rugged compression driver that could play lower. The cheaper home version crossed over at 1200 Hz for power handling. These days, no one in their right mind would cross over a 15" woofer that high without a wave guide, whizzer cone, or at least a phase plug.

Unaware at the time about beaming, dispersion, and in-room power response, we typically figured that the horn was making the music sound horn-like. Yet my pro monitors had no such coloration (in fact, they kicked ass!). I also found that this suckout wasn't very noticeable when playing jazz combos and larger scale instrumental music, but was immediately noticeable on solo voice. From that point on--as much as I like instrumental music--I can't consider a speaker without hearing what it does with vocals.

So there's a little more anecdotal evidence for the impact of beaming on an inappropriate crossover point.

To clarify: 700Hz er certainly part of the midrange (indeed the lower part of the central mids), and voices typically contain a lot of energy even lower in the frequency spectrum.

no dispute here Phusis. I was not stating otherwise. Merely stating that the bulk of the midrange freq is handled by their new tweeter. Yes, freq below 700Hz is handled by the 12" mid driver which seems to be more suited to the lower freq. Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point.

What's to learn is oftentimes to unlearn, keep an open mind, and be willing to go against accepted (read: rigid) norms.

good advice Phusis. I keep an open mind while keeping Physics in my mind at the same time. Hopefully you do the same....
Timlub tried to explain some of the physics to you but it went over your head. I tried too in my very 1st post & it looks like that went over your head as well.
Well, you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink...

700 Hz wavelength is over 19" long, so a 12" driver wouldn't even be close to beaming. Tannoy knows what they're doing, but apparently you refuse to catch on, even with multiple corroborating explanations.

johnnyb53, I get it. the point is do the likes of you & Dweller get it?
Once again: Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point. Hopefully you got that?
thanks.

johnnyb53, I get it. the point is do the likes of you & Dweller get it?
Once again: Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point. Hopefully you got that?
thanks.

That was sloppy editing on my part. I was totally agreeing with you. Where I said "apparently you refuse to catch on..." I was addressing Dweller, not you.

I was trying to corroborate your assertion about the 700 Hz crossover, that it's well below the frequency where a 12" driver would start beaming, and that the Tannoy 12" driver functions more as a woofer than as a midrange. I don't usually get that jumbled up in pronouns and their antecedants.

Thanks guys for trying to teach an old dog new tricks.
I'm looking for a way to get a more life-like listening experience.
You're trying to tell me why I can't have it.

Bombaywalla --

To reiterate from an earlier response of yours (to the OP):

The Tannoy Kingdom Royal has NO MIDRANGE driver contrary to what you seemed to allude to.
Their new HF compression driver tweeter is doing all the midrange.
Like you seemed to indicate - Tannoy is not foolish & they wouldn't put a 12" midrange! The 12" unit does upper bass to 700Hz & the lower bass unit does the bottom-most octave.

Well, the Tannoy Kingdom Royal has got a midrange driver (sorely needed to play midrange) - that is, not only one but two of them: the 12" unit for the lower mids, and the compression driver for the rest above 700Hz.

In your reply to me:

no dispute here Phusis. I was not stating otherwise. Merely stating that the bulk of the midrange freq is handled by their new tweeter. Yes, freq below 700Hz is handled by the 12" mid driver which seems to be more suited to the lower freq. Tannoy smart as they are did not try to do any more midrange with the 12" driver - that was my point.

Given the choice of two well-implemented speaker systems I'd not necessarily choose the one where a compression handles midrange duties from 700Hz up (which, in effect, would likely be a 3-way setup, or more) compared to a 12" unit handling the mids up to 1.3kHz (which, crossed over to a compression driver, could be a 2-way ditto).

You seem fairly adamant in claiming that a 12" can't do midrange much above 700Hz; I say it can - and certainly the beaming limit for a unit this size (with an effective cone diameter of ~10") is not yet reached, even at 1kHz. In the case of the Tannoy's mentioned I do believe they made the right choice crossing over the 12" unit no higher than 700Hz, also being that the compression driver here is augmented by a "supertweeter."

You continue:

good advice Phusis. I keep an open mind while keeping Physics in my mind at the same time. Hopefully you do the same....
Timlub tried to explain some of the physics to you but it went over your head. I tried too in my very 1st post & it looks like that went over your head as well.
Well, you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink...

I find the writings of Mr. Timlub enlightening, indeed there's something to learn here, but while I appreciate your addressing "physics" I believe you adhere to them in a rather non-flexible fashion that cares more about numbers than, it would seem, actual listening impressions - or at least you're without the positive experience of a 12" playing midrange above 1kHz, in which case I respect. I just don't share the same experience.

Something went over my head? I don't think so, but while I'm glad to learn I have no problem going contrary to stated physics if my ears tell me otherwise, and in my case and with my speakers there's no seeming dissonance between what I hear and what physics should imply.