Turnable database with TimeLine

Peterayer,
Halcros comments are contradictory. On the one hand he believes that DD TT's are inherently superior in timing to Belt Drives. Then he states that no one can hear any difference between his belt drive Raven and the DD Victor. This would only be possible if the system itself has poor timing and cannot demonstrate the superiority of the Direct Drive.
The other contradiction in Halcro's post is that he claims that he can hear the effect of a drop in speed from 33.33 to 33.32rpm. The Raven cannot hold the correct speed as shown in his timeline test above and has a speed error that exceeds the drop from 33.33 to 33.32rpm. Therefore either the statement "no one can hear any difference" is wrong or "I can hear the speed drop from 33.33 to 33.32rpm" is wrong.
The other observation is that Halcro runs different tonearms on the 2 turntables.
Given the level of investment in his system I would not be happy if I could not hear any differences between tonearms.
I can only assume that since Halcro seems happy with the belt drive Raven which cannot hold the correct speed then he must be be a member of both the subjective and objective groups.
Peyerayer, since I prefer my Final Audio Parthenon thread drive to both the SP10mkIII and Kenwood L07D, then by Halcros definition I am a subjectivist. I am quite happy with this, because if I was an objectivist then I would simply read the musical score to attain the perfect performance as no live performance or audio system can be "perfect" and music would only exist in theory.

Alas Banquo......'tis true....
The TT-101 began to develop speed inconsistencies.....to such an extent that 33.33rpm became 35.78 and then 42.21......
45rpm did the same thing......
Tomorrow I take it to my Tech who is really excited having seen my photos of the innards.....
Of course he has never worked on one of these monsters.....but armed with my full manual of circuit diagrams etc from Vinyl Engine......I may get lucky?
If it happens.....I'll have him change all the capacitors as I was waiting for just such an occurrence to afford me the excuse.
It may be that 35 years is the life expectancy of the TT-101......and it's complexity may sound its deathnell?
Meanwhile....luckily....the much simpler TT-81 is standing in its place.....and sounding maybe even better than its big brother?
I will keep you updated......

Dear Dover, From my perch, I view the dynamic as follows: Halcro is perhaps guilty of trying to "prove" empirically the superiority of his TT101 (and maybe now the TT81), while you seem to be trying to prove the superiority of belt-drive, at least as represented by your Final Audio Parthenon (which may be one of the best of that breed). (Your puncture wound of Halcro's logic re the Raven is perhaps valid, by the way.) Your both entitled to your opinions, and both opinions are equally valid, IMO. I guess I side with you, however, on the subjectivist side; I will check the speed stability of any tt with the KAB strobe device. If speed is stable with LP in play, that's good enough speed stability for me. Then comes listening, and listening trumps other considerations.

As to your preference for the FAP vs the L07D and MK3, have you heard both of the latter in your current system with same tonearms and cartridges, so as to validate your opinion? If not (and I think not, given that the L07D has its own tonearm, for one example), then your opinion of the relative merits is just your opinion. Which is fine.

Direct drive is not the only drive system that uses speed correction. Micro Seiki belt drive turntables and some others use speed correction on their motor if not the platter. Either way, it's still servo. Is that always a bad thing?

I don't think one drive system is superior over the others. I just happen to prefer DD for its mechanical (if not electronic) simplicity. The stylus does NOT know nor care what is making the platter spinning smoothly, precisely, and/or consistently. It's just picking up groove informations between rotations. Either way, let you ear decide.

_______

But when the Micro is auto-correcting, it is doing so via a mechanical system that has lots more compliance built into it (the belt) compared to any direct-drive system. Thus there is more danger that the corrective action will lag behind the moment of the occurrence of the speed inaccuracy, leading to over-correction, and thus actually contributing to the problem, rather than to ameliorate it. I don't know that this is connected to the fact that others who revere MS tt's have remarked that they do not use the OEM MS motor, preferring other motors instead.