Turnable database with TimeLine

@halcro:

> Contrast that to the same Raven AC-2 with the TIMELINE where ‘stylus drag’ is confirmed and differs to the KAB results?

Your test and comparison has a potential fundamental flaw - you must first re-set steady speed with the Timeline and the stylus off the record, before you can make the claim that the Timeline is showing a drift due to stylus drag, that the KAB does not.

The reason that is in your KAB video you have a record weight which is NOT necessarily the same mass as the Timeline, in your timeline video.

A properly executed test will first set speed with whatever device is being tested, with the stylus off the record, then with the stylus on the record.

There is a likelihood that the Timeline itself is actually slowing down the playback, in your Timeline video, not stylus drag.

Halcro, It would really be interesting to see how long my TT maintains the correct speed. Unfortunately I don´t have the devices mentioned available and am not planning to purchase them in near future. Furthermore, I´m not running the Salvation motor in way the Salvation decks do, mine is merely an implementation to a different TT. The motor works more precisely with uber large platters like the Salvation.
And I quite often have issues on mains voltage stability in this remote frontier.
My video wouldn´t do justice to Vic´s magnificent TT.
I would like to see the original Salvation TT in action instead.

Ack, I follow your reasoning right up to the last sentence. The Timeline per se is not even as heavy as the "typical" record weight, and the mass of a record weight/Timeline is concentrated at the center of rotation, where the motive force has a tremendous mechanical advantage, compared to the mechanics of overcoming friction forces applied at the outside edge of an LP via the stylus. Any tt that would be appreciably slowed by the Timeline would be one that is very prone to any effect of stylus drag, as well.

Plus, I may be wrong, but I do think Halcro did the proper control in this case. He will tell us.

Ack,

I'm not sure that I understand your comments?
In all my videos with both Victor TT-101, Victor TT-81 and Raven AC-2......the Timeline and KAB Strobe are shown with tonearms lowered and raised.
In fact they are the only videos in this Databank which show this situation.

As Lewm has stated.....the weight of the Timeline clamp or the record clamp are irrelevant as weight is not a factor in stylus drag and certainly weight over the platter bearing plays no part.
Stylus drag is caused solely by the friction of the stylus hitting the walls of the record groove with enough force (and on enough occasions) to slow down the rotational speed of the platter. This will occur more noticeably with heavily modulated passages where the vinyl walls can be almost perpendicular to the path of travel of the stylus.

With both Victor DD turntables....it is apparent that even with 3 tonearms lowered or raised in any combination......no change to platter speed is visible with the Timeline.
With the Raven under the Timeline....it can be seen that the platter runs slightly slow with the stylus engaged but runs perfectly to speed when the tonearm is raised. However with the KAB Strobe in place......it appears that the Raven runs perfectly to speed with or without the tonearm engaged.
Based solely on the visual results of the KAB.....one could possibly claim that 'stylus drag' is a myth?
The Timeline however proves that it is a reality.

Now the AMOUNT of stylus drag with the Raven is very small........and because it appears to be relatively consistent....it is inaudible.
So it bothers me none that the KAB Strobe is 'good enough' for all practical purposes and if Lewm and others are happy to rely upon it.....who am I to argue?
My only disagreement comes with the claims that it is as accurate as the Timeline?

Now if I have misunderstood the points you have raised.....perhaps you could put them another way?

The big question is, what's a "turnable"?
Here we've all been talking about turntables, and Halcro wanted to discuss turnables all along.

Some few of you might want to know that after sending off my own TT101 for its third fix, the repair person (NOT Bill Thalmann; I could not bear to tell Bill that his fixes don't work at my house even though the TT101 works flawlessly in his shop) reports to me that in HIS shop, my TT101 also worked flawlessly, for weeks on end. He cannot make it malfunction, so he cannot fix it. He is sending it back to me. Gremlins afoot, no doubt. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will decide to work for me when I do receive it.