*****I would submit to you that the reason the German kid says what he does is indeed education,*******
I would say it's because Beethoven was German.
Cheers
I would say it's because Beethoven was German.
Cheers
Has education expanded your listening tastes?
This point recently came up in another thread: a member was of the opinion (if I am paraphrasing them correctly) that critical thinking plays little role in what our tastes in music might be. We like what we like and that's it. So that begs the question for me, how many of us feel that our reaction to music is primarily rooted in the emotional centers of the brain and that rational analysis of musical structure and language doesn't potentially expand our range of musical enjoyment? I ask because I am not a professional musician, but I did take a few college level music history classes, learn to play guitar in my forties (now sixty,) learn to read music on a rudimentary level of competence, study a little music theory, and enjoy reading historical biographies about composers and musicians. I can honestly say that the in the last fifteen years or so, I have greatly expanded what types of music I enjoy and that I can appreciate music I might not "love" in the emotional sense that used to dictate what I listen to. Take Berg, Schoenberg, and Webern for example. Their music doesn't sweep you away with the emotional majesty of earlier composers, but I find their intellectual rigor and organization to be fascinating and very enjoyable. Same with studying the history of American roots music, I learned a lot about our cultural history and enjoy listening to old blues and country music now. How do other's feel about this emotion vs. learning to appreciate thing?
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*****What I do not understand is the folks who are obviously afraid that educating themselves more about music is somehow going to decrease their emotional enjoyment of it****** This 'accusation' was made long ago, not by Learsfool, and went unchallenged at that time. Now, as in politics, it has become Fact! It does not apply to any poster I have read. Certainly not to me. I only suggested that having formal instruction in music is not a prerequisite to the enjoyment of music. I would suggest that this applies to the vast majority of the people that support classical music in this country. Including those that give financial support to the arts. I would also suggest that the major advantage a 'musical educated' person has over the layman, is the musical vocabulary. They don't hear it any differently, or are affected by it, any more than the layman, they can just talk about what they are hearing, using the correct words. They know the terminology. They may know how the 'sausage' is made, but anyone can enjoy the taste. Cheers |
Rok2id, I agree with you to a point. However, I do not agree that someone without knowledge of an artistic creation's historical context and means of creation enjoys a work as fully or hears music the same as someone with more informed knowledge. That's not being elitist, just basic truth it would seem to me. Take this as an example. Listen to the opening few minutes of J.S. Bach's "A Musical Offering." Now, listen to the same Ricercar after reading the brief one page explanation of a crab canon and while listening along with the animated film that illustrates the evolution of the canon. http://aminotes.tumblr.com/post/651794581/j-s-bach-canon-cancrizans-the-crab-canon Is lack of this knowledge going to stop you from enjoying the composition, of course not. But it defies logic to say one hears it the same way after learning more about Bach's incredible compositional genius. |
Photon46: Nice clip. I learned what a Canon is, and I thank you for that. I think we do not have any disagreement about all this. It could be just that, in previous posts, on a different thread, on this subject, we were talking pass each other because our words mean different things to us. Not so much you, because you are new to this 'discussion'. :) I do not disagree with anything you have said. Did I enjoy the piece by Bach more after reading the narrative and watching the animation? I am not sure 'enjoy more' would be the words I would use. After looking up the meaning of the word 'canon' as used in music, I would say I have gained new knowledge about music, and that is good. I now have a new word in my musical vocabulary. Something to watch for in the linear notes. The wiki gave a few examples of canons. Popular songs sung by children. Never would have known to call them canons. Getting back to the terminology thing. I often listen to music and say to myself, "I wonder what they call that?" Referring to a certain section of a score, or a style of playing. But, you are correct. I will never again listen to Bach quite the same way. Sort of like, I now listen for Bass Intonation in Jazz recordings. Cheers |
Hi Rok - my comments were not actually directed at you, but such opinions have indeed been either stated or strongly implied from time to time in threads like these, and are even expressed by college music students, as Photon says. I agree with him that any sort of discussion of aesthetics has almost entirely disappeared from our culture, and that is not a good thing, IMO. I would also say that your experience with Photon's link is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about. I do believe you will enjoy (not just understand) any canon much more the next time you hear one now that you know how one works. There is so much more to music than just the emotional content and/or the emotional response it provokes (or doesn't). These other aspects of it will only add to the emotional aspect of your enjoyment, because they do involve your mind more while listening. You are more of a jazz fan - I would submit that looking up a bit of info about basic jazz forms will greatly enhance your listening experience, in much the same way Photon's canon link has done. Frogman could probably provide such a link, I would guess. |
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