Speaker and Amp dilemma

Let's recap, one vote to change amp, one vote to go for M-L's, and one vote to go for a different speaker. Having owned Forte amps, listened to other Legacy speakers, and read the Stereophile review on the 20/20's, I'm not totally convinced amp/speaker is the problem for toe tap. Would you care to list your preamp, source, and speaker cables & interconnects?

Thanks for asking Tls49. My preamp is a Parasound Halo 3 and I acquired a very nice pair of 12 foot Legacy speaker cables when I bought the speakers. I must confess that I have only compared them to plain Monster 12 gauge OFC zip cord style speaker cables. And they were noticeably better than the less expensive Monsters, in an all around way. I guessed they were probably better than most anything else I could afford at that time, best I have ever had anyway. My interconnects are single ended Harmonic Technology Truth cables. After trying a few others including some Van Den Hul and Audioquest I really liked the Truthlinks, and after tying one pair I now own 3 pair, and the pair I have between preamp and amp is the next model up, forgive me for forgetting their name and not looking back there to see.

I have also heard some Vandersteen model 3's at the salon before, and found them to be most impressive. It is easy to speculate on a thousand brands out there that may or not bring me more satisfaction, and so hard to pick one.

I also do wonder what if I were to drop a few grand on a preamp, phono pre, turntable or cartridge, but while the source is of utmost Importance, the amp/speaker is really what controls the character of the system. So while I know a new preamp will make a difference, I want to do what will make the largest difference first. On my fixed retirement income, I am limited to perhaps one new component per year! Or two years, depending on how much I spend. So perhaps high end is not the best hobby for me? Well my previous system was actually far cheaper than my present one, and I loved it! (In a different room in a different house.) And got great satisfaction from it for 20 years! But alas I gave that system to my daughter Christmas before last. Audio is a hobby we are responsible to pass on to the next generation, to keep the market healthy.

I hear from those who say that my amp is fine, should work great, and I hear the same said for my speakers, but obviously they are just not meant for each other. And while cables do make a difference, I am looking for a greater difference than I believe cables can make, I am trying to set the overall character of my whole system here. But just as I knew before I opened this post, there are no easy answers, trial and error is about my only course of action. But it is good to hear what others would do in my place, it does give me a lot to think about.

Alpha_gt, thanks for sharing the rest of your system. Your Legacy speakers do have a high sensitivity, however there is some issue with impedance and phase angle at certain frequencies as noted by the Stereophile review. This would be a problem with a tube amp, but the Forte should have no problem at all, since it is a high current design and stable with a low impedance load. I don't think more power will accomplish anything except a little more ultimate volume.

I am curious that when you say "wow factor", are you refering to dynamics?

Thanks again Tls49, I appreciate your input. Like you, I bought these pieces thinking it should all be a good match, bought used of course. Spec wise, there is nothing really wrong with the system. But when I say it lacks Wow factor, perhaps I am referring to dynamics, or perhaps sound stage too? It's hard to put my finger on, or maybe I lack the language to describe what it lacks. But what I used to feel with my old system, and it was a real budget system that I would not even want to tell you about, but it gave me this long term attraction. One record lead to the next, and next, until I would find myself up at 2am on a work night! Unable to pull myself away, and each record would give me the name of the next one, and while I did like it extra loud on occasion, most times I was probably listening at about 86 to 90db or so. And late at night, not even that loud, maybe 60db max.

And there was another quality to it that I miss, that feeling of being there maybe? To be able to suspend disbelief and close my eyes and see my favorite bands up on the stage? But the emotional response, to be able to put a particular song on and know that if I set the volume up and settled back it would eventually bring a tear to my eye, I was emotionally vested in the performance! And I was not alone, I have seen a few of my friends reach this same nirvana on a few occasions. (You know the type, too cheap to get their own stereo, but do not mind coming to your house with a 6 pack in hand for an evening of good music!).

So, I thought this stereo system being of such higher pedigree, and the numbers that match well, should be blowing that old system away! But this is a new house, a larger room, and entirely different setup. The old stereo had runs of $1 a foot Monster Siamese speaker cable, with no ends on them, and I did have a pair of $75 Van den Hul linear crystal copper interconnects on my old Sony CDP608ES CD player, so again the cables I use now are far better, and to my ears sound great! In fact they made a nice leap forward after I installed them. (The Truthlinks) and I got these Legacy speaker cables with the speakers, one would think a good match, but of course we never really know. They are some very amazing speaker cables that outshine my old cables like magic. Not a great feat perhaps, but I never really had any complaints with the old wires. So, the new stereo can play loud! No problem there! It has serious bass! Amazing bass even, I am a bass guitar player and I am so impressed at how much more I can hear the bass player in my old favorite recordings. The highs are smooth and clear, I can hear deeper into the mix than I ever could with my old stereo. The soundstage is somewhat flatter, I do not get a great sense of who is in front and who is in the rear, as I have heard on other systems, the Martin Logan's excelled at that! I could tell where every piece was! And how tall the singer was! But of course they were being driven by $30K worth of electronics at the time. (At the salon, you may recall).

So, while all of these dimensions would seem to add up to a very nice system, I can hear that it does more, and sounds better on the surface, (deeper and accurate bass, smoother revealing highs), I can actually hear more of my favorite recordings than ever before! But, this stereo has never, not once ever brought a single tear to my cheek, no emotional involvement, and I do not have that feeling that one album will lead to another until I have lost all lack of time. How do I get that feeling back? What is missing from this system that the old bargin system had? OK I will tell you, it was an Adcom 555 & Adcom pre driving Bose 601 mkiii. Not trash by no means, but certainly nothing special. Perhaps this better spells out my dilemma, thanks for listening.

Russell

Hi Russell, I believe I understand better now, and the word engaging comes to mind. Sounds like you're looking for the music to pull you in and make you yearn for more.

I'm retired now, but worked in the audio industry for over 20 years, and have had quite a bit of experience with many different products and system set up. For Adcom amps, a 535, 5500, and a 5802. Also, had 2 Forte amps and a Threshold. Currently use a Musical Fidelity integrated, and had 2 others prior to this one. I still have many local friends calling me to "pick my brain", as they say, when they're having problems or thinking about upgrades.

No personal experience with Parasound, but did read a review on your preamp. Looks like a nice preamp, however it did say the phono stage was just OK, and seem to suggest that it could easily be improved with an inexpensive outboard phono stage.

You seem like a super nice guy, and if you would like to talk by phone, I would be happy to do so. You could call me, or I will call you. We could email directly through Audiogon, rather than posting numbers on the forum.

Tony