Theory about Cary amps and their reviewers

"It doesn't sound like a soild state amp therefore it is unreliable is not a first hand account of your problem with one of these amps. Is it"

This is a gross misrepresentation of what I said and meant. I got away from tubes a few years ago due to the unreliability of a Counterpoint SA 5.1. For about six years I used only SS gear.

After getting to know, through AudiogoN the virtues of tube gear, I decided I would like to try some tube amps. Cary's were one of the amps I wanted to try. SOme of the other amps were the Wolcotts, and VTL.

When the chance came up to try the V 12's I jumped at it. I even gave them an extended break-in which since they were well used, they should not have needed. After over one month I made my conclusion. Was one month long enough to determine that they did not sound good?!?

I wanted the Cary's to better the Krell amp I had just sold, and really thought I would buy the V12's from the clod who was no longer using them. I even had my wife sit and listen with me to make sure I was hear them right. The Cary's were dull, flat, lifeless and boring, compared to the krell amp that I was no longer interested in owning, and had sold to the Cary owner.

The Cary would have been a step backwards from an older Krell FPB 200! So I bought a new Krell FPB 700cx, which was better than the Cary in every conceivable aspect.

I wanted the Cary's to be good! I was hoping to buy them!!! BUT there was no magic, there wasn't even music!!! They sounded about 25% better than AM radio!

Nrchy,

I know a lot of people will disagree, but I think you tried the wrong product if you were looking for the "Cary Magic" in the V12's. I have never owned a V12 amp, but I have auditioned them extensively. I know that the V12's are highly regarded, but to my ears they don't have the same magic as products such as the 805C, SLM-100, and SLI-80.

In fact, I once auditioned a V12 back to back with a pair of 805c's. The V12 sounded dull, flat, lifeless and boring just as you described. I thought there must be something wrong with the system until I substituted the 805c's and everything sprung to life. You really should try to audition some other Cary products if you get the chance. Until then, it's easy share your enthusiasm for Krell FPB amps. I really like those too. If only I had endless resources to set up multiple systems...

Jeffrey, I'm not trying to pick a fight with the gentleman who started this thread, I just tried to point out my experience. He has repeatedly claimed that I either don't know what I'm talking about, or that I have a bias against this product. I know I gave the amps a fair try, and I wanted to buy them until I heard them.

It's good to know that Cary does make some products that do sound good. I had more or less written the company off based on my experience with the V12's.

I don't have either of the Krells anymore, but they did sound better than the V12.

Ok, ok, already - Can we all just agree Dennis Had is probably kind of a hothead, if not actually a bad guy and go on with our lives? I'm more of a Bryston than a Krell man, if it comes to solid state. Anyway with the V12's it's probably an EL34 vs. (insert other tube name here).

better late than never...

I own a Cary 300SEI LX20, the higher watt KR tube version, no longer made due to reliability issues with the older KR tubes and then the company itself. The extra power makes the difference for most speakers. The tube itself is an improvement in the frequency extremes. It's a testimony to Cary's responibility that they made the hard to decision to bag the KR based design in deference to reliability since they loved that tube.

This beautiful little integrated has more detail, transparancy, finesse and "thereness" than the SS EAD Powermaster 500 (and everything else) I compared it to. I also am a big fan of upgrading through modifying as I have done with increasing depth with this amp over time. By upgrading the rectifiers first, then the coupling and bypass caps, then rebuilding the whole damn thing from scratch (ie. polyplroylene power supply caps, upgrading coupling caps again, improved the circuit, adding choke for filament supply, made wiring more direct) I was able to maintain the tube magic and remove most of any down sides, improving speed and transparancy, frequency extremes, bass clarity, smoother sibilance, dynamics, jump factor, lowering noise, hash and grunge, etc...

The point is that the product started out as a great real world product, (cute too) and can be improved to signifantly decrease the issues separating the tube and SS camps. They've also been extremely helpful.

The only negative issues I've had with it are a bit more physical hum off the power transformer than I'd like; output tubes supernovaing which were replaced for free a number of times; and 300B bias resistors burning up over time, which I replaced with their help before I reconfigured the whole thing with separate over speced resistors for each channel.

Dennis is a busnessman and a salesman with plenty of gas in his tank, but he covers all the bases responsibly, including providing a solid product at a fair price. Kirk, their former tech support man is an angel. The new guy is very helpful as well.

ya chooses ya poison...

'smy 2 cents.