Burned out hi fi salesman

I gotta ask everyone here, do you trust anybody with absolutes in sound? Common guys you are end result, regardless if anyone can sell you one concept or another its all about your knowledge of how a sound, or system you want should be developed, ALL A DEALER should do is make sure you get your Price point if possible and within reason, Support your Concept and opinion of view and just guide you toward the items they believe will help, whether they think it is correct or not(sink or swim) cause sound is far to subjective, and return the unit after you find 3 days or 30 days later that its not the right thing for you and have no questions beyond how can we move you to something different that will be livable and happy in the end for you. A note to Dealers: Bottom line FACT most guys with the decent hiend shops have gone to a FLAT out no return or No money back, credit only system and of course that scares away guys that know you can purchase the item for 40% less online or used and simply take LESS of a bath if they decide to re-sell on sites like this great audiogon.com or ebay... Hell half of us would not have gotten this far without online and about 9 out of 10 of us could be even Less happy with our systems if we only could have that 6 product lines available in our area by a couple of dealers. That being said You Dealers want to have a viable reason for existance again, well thats a place to start. I do have to say I understand the risk of letting customers return and not be stuck buying another product from you is a tuff and possibly dangerous business but to get me back into local shops this is what I look for... Most if lucky will tell you okay if you take this item for 10,000$ on friday we give you 7 days, then charge you and its all credit if you bring it back after that.
Well to me thats tuff, hell I might think its great the saturday I pick it up, not even really get the time put in to hear it much more by the following weekend and then I'm screwed.
This is something I see occuring more than maybe you guys know but it exists, so ask before anything else whats the return policy.
Of course if you Special order an Item well thats a very different story, but even then you can go direct to manufacture in that case many times and they will audition it to you cost of shipping back and forth and save you the mistake, Dealers simply have less options in this respect and I sympathise, but thats the way the Audiophile brain works Cinematic_systems, not that you are guilty of this but there are much deeper problems with local retail than even you might think about because you are on the other side of the Coin(or money) Rant over.

Cinematic system's,you asked how i know what i want without ever hearing it,your question would be spot on if we were talking about me trying to achieve a certian type of sound which i am not,for the most part im satisfied with my sound & im not one to pick apart every weakness in a certian peice of gear.

early on in this hobby i discovered that i liked the way mcintosh gear sounded & made a choice to build an all mcintosh rig,after i achieved that goal i chose to build different mcintosh rig's based around xrt 22 speaker's & ive done that several time's using all sort's of mac ss & tube gear alike.

i allready enjoy the way my rig sound's so my searching & buying of new gear is just to try different peice's & have fun at the same time & not to achive a sound i think i dont have or that i need.

dont paint me with the same brush used to describe time wasting tire kicker's or indecisive buyer's, i never ask my dealer what i need nor do i want to be informed by him of anything,i do all my own research before i even visit my dealer so i know as much as i can about the gear in question,i also orient myself as to what other dealer's are selling the same gear for & what that gear will be worth in a year when i want to try something new,when i visit my prefered dealer ive made my mind up on what i want to buy allready & i go there with the intent on laying down cash on the spot,no game's just business.

most of the time i agree with you on most issue's but your way off base here,you point out that putting a $90 driver into a cabinet is not all that time consuming refering to the mark up & i agree with that but dont fault me because i refuse to pay price's for any gear that would allow a salesman/owner to take his entire family to the bahama's for a week's vacation for simply running my visa thru the machine & making a call to order the gear.

a good salesman should know the difference between buyer's that need to be sold & buyer's that come to buy & be able to handle both with courtesy & respect & a smart businessman would rather have a potential customer waste hour's of his time answering question's as oposed to sending him away with a bad taste in his mouth to tell other's how poorly he was treated in that store.

it's called customer service & it's something that audiophile's have grown used to not getting but now over the last few year's with audiogon having such a huge presence for buyers,dealers & manufacturer's alike alot of buyer's are realizing that they dont have to be treated like tird's to enjoy the hobby & the dealer's with poor communication skill's & age old selling pratice's are really feeling the heat.

mike.

To:Cinematic_systems

The reason I was at my local hi fi store was to pick up a Patricia Barber album. The sales guy spotted the "Vinyl" and started talking to me about equipment. I declined an offer to listen to "Whatever I want" because as I said to the salesman "I am very happy with my system". For me it's about the music, the equipment is only a tool.

Cheers,
Nocaster.

I think Cinematic Systems makes a number of good points, and I also think it's important to read the "writing on the wall," as he suggests. If he is saying that trying to please an audiophile community and having little yield is causing problems for retailers/system installers like himself, then there's probably some truth to that. Audiophiles can be a relentlessly unsatisfied group. But not being able to audition equipment can hinder other opportunities to buy as well. It's difficult to buy things on the Audiogon without having the opportunity to listen to the equipment first. I don't think that given the nature of the hobby, given the precision of the selection and the price that people should assume the same kinds of approaches should apply as with normal consumption choices. In an industry where sales involve a lot more misses than hits, I think people should cut the retailers some slack. Do you enjoy being able to go into shops and hear gear whenever you want and then buy on the Audiogon used because the stuff costs too much at the shops? Then maybe offer some gestures of appreciation. Give the dealer a gift certificate to a restaurant. Take him out for "several" beers, or what have you. I really really enjoyed one dealer last year. he gave me a lot of time, a lot of opportunities to listen to music on his equipment. I very much wanted to give him my business, but I didn't like the gear as much as I wanted to with my music. I ended up buying elsewhere. What did I do? I bought this dealer a gift set last December as a Christmas gift for his trouble. In so doing, I got another chance to listen and talk some more. The generosity to be able to listen is a two-way street. it doesn't come free for a dealer. Show them some appreciation and buy them a gift for the holidays if they've done well by you and you didn't end up buying. Their time and effort, even if ultimately for selling, doesn't come free. Bravo CS.

5% sounds like a lot to me. More like .5%. But that's the difference audiophiles pay the most for. I agree: the sales person was not a believer so he should not be in the business of proselytizing.