Jadis Orchestra Reference SE and DA-50 Integrateds

In France, the Cayin 500 received many rave reviews but I don't think it was ever sold in the US. I have never heard one.

I auditioned both the JOR and 50S side by side and loved both. It was a classic comparison of EL34 to KT88 and so I would pick whichever tube I prefer. Personally, I like EL34 better.

I am indeed the lucky recipient of Joe's JOR. Just for perspective, let me state that my home system (EMM DCC2, CDSD, Sota Cosmos latest vacuum model, Shelter 901, EAR 324, Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk III, Atma-Sphere MA-2 (220 WPC OTL Class A), Kharma Reference 3.2, PAD Dominus i/cs and s/cs) provides no more musical pleasure than my much more modest second office system, powered by the incredible JOR (Merlin TSM-Mx, APL 3910, Thorens 125 Mk III, Shure V15V, Wright WPP 200 C phono preamp, Cardas GR i/cs and s/c) which runs 12 hours every day while I work. (3500 hours) I am ashamed and embarassed to say that in the 12 months I have owned it, I have not re-biased it after Joe kindly biased it and sent his JJ blue EL 34s with it. I did replace the 12AX7s with Mullard NOS courtesy of Andy at Vintage Tubes. I cannot face dissembling the amp - although it is obviously time, after 12 months. But you cant tell from listening. This is an ear-opening amp, of seductive mid-range, sweet, mellow but resolved highs and light, non-weighty but satisfactory bass. For classical, mostly chamber music - you should just hear Mozart Clarinet concerto or Kiri singing Dovo Sono - you dont miss the non-stellar lower notes - But the overall midrange and high-end are so beguiling, relaxing and tonally perfect, that I elect to listen to it all day rather than come home to a system that is logarithmically more expensive and powerful and "better." But, you just cant beat the utter musicality and visceral appeal of the JOR amp. The mids and highs have a earthy, almost thick, but detailed enough, mystical presence, an almost palpable feel that is sensuous and gripping beyond description - - It blew away any other amps I have tried, including many highly rated SS amps and high powered SET amps of highly pedigreed lineage. This is indeed a magical piece of music-producing design and again I thank Joe for selling it - I really dont think he wanted to - had his arm kinda severely twisted, but it aint going nowhere, unless someone offers me the new auto-biasing Jadis at a song:). Joe's description of its strengths are perfect, and if this wasn't such a pain to bias, would get even higher raves than the best compliment I can give it - it is my first listening choice every day. I cant bring it home to try with the Kharmas because it doesn't have balanced inputs and all my home cables are XLRs. But it owns you after a while and could only conceivably be replaced with another Jadis.....just like Joe did and said.

"Bartok are you in france?"
Hi Joe
No I live i n Baton Rouge. Recently displaced by hurricane Katrina, lived in Lakeview, was at home during the storm. My stereo/cds were saved, unlike many others who evacuated w/o knowing the consequences.
I bought the Jadis from the US dealer, came with KT90's, Richard Grey told me, "mighty fine tubes, do not go with others". So not sure if I really want/need the KT88's.
The thing with the JOR is that lack of "punch" you refer to that the DA60 has in ample supply, the DA30 as well.
However I really was impressed with a friend's Cayin 300, and since then I have bought 2 Cayin Tube cdp's. Both fine output.
The Cayin 500 is in a class above most Cayin's. One can see from the photio those U29's are pretty amazing looking tubes.
So I managed to call a dealer in france. And from a short chat with him, I do not speak french, he spoke fair english, he had only the highest praise for the 500. He wanted me to understand one descriptive, "imaginique" How the music has a clear imaginable image in production, depths of reality I guess he wanted to express..
Now I guess the DA60 produces extra-ordinary sound reproduction as well. This I have no boubts.
I might be able to ship a 500 MK for $3600.
The DA60 runs about $6K.
I'd really hate to comapare the 2 in a test, as I'd want both.
Most likely I'll go with the Cayin, 1-2 yrs from now.
I'm expecting the 500 to delieve some heft, she weighs in at about $80 lbs.
The DA60 goes heaviey than that I believe.
The DA60 is not easy to get out my mind.
"a last amp" for sure.
Which tubes are best with the DA60?
Paul

Bill, take the Jadis specs with a grain of salt...

For example, on their own website, they list the JA800 as using 4 KT90 output tubes, a fraction of what the number is in reality. Also, the Class A/B JOR is listed as consuming 300 watts, while the pure Class A DA30 using the same output tubes uses 240 watts? I doubt it...

I believe the DA60 is $11K+. The JOR for $2900 is a really nice deal, the DA50, IMHO, at $6500 seems quite dear. Then again, to get most of what the DA60 offers, maybe it is a good deal. While the prices seem high to me, when you compare them to buying separates, spending as much, and not doing as well sonically, maybe I need to adjust my thinking?

Oh, one other thing, despite what just about everyone will tell you, go for the tone controls if you settle on the JOR. Being able to tilt the bass up two clicks sounded very right in many cases to me.

Paul, my heart goes out to you over the Katrina tragedy. Thankfully, you seem to have landed on your feet. I think you are very wise in your thinking. But, I will say that me and Richard Grey are in total disagreement when it comes to the Ei KT90.

I used to think they were great tubes as well, and there is no more robust tube on the market. But, when I retubed my JOR for Denis (Springbok10), it is difficult to express how much better the amplifier got. Yes, the KT90 make more power, and yes, they are the most extended in the bass and treble. But, being able to flesh out the midrange versus having a more cold, sterile sound is a tradeoff anyone who falls in line with what we talked about Jadis offering will make every day of the week. Both the KT88 and the EL34 were several steps ahead, in short, you have no idea how much better your JOR can really sound until you are ready for a retube.

Aball, what about a DA30 or a DA60 in lieu of the JOR versus the DA50? That way, you can run either the EL34 or the KT88, depending on where you are along the way. Based on my feeling, cost, and your opinion, things are starting to tilt towards the JJ Blue Glass E34L in my DA60, though Avi Brand is not an EL34 fan, he is trying to steer me to the KT88.

Denis, it's hard to put into words how happy I am that you are enjoying the JOR as much as you do. It's a shock, actually, you have a murderer's row of equipment in the big system. Obviously, to impress you is an accomplishment. I was more than a bit nervous when it went up to you, as you had tried and rejected a number of highly rated components. But, your endorsement is something that Jadis must be extremely proud of. I doubt you'll be going back to the Ei KT90 tubes...

Joe
Though I don't like to change out tubes, cause as you know there is a trade off.
However you do may the comment in the "coldness" of the JOR with the KT90's. Now folks reading this may not understand that the JOR with the KT90's is a very nice sound, I just rated it 9 in the mids on another topic.
But the coldness is undeniably there. Since I listen to all classical, with little need for extentions in the highs/lows, I may be very interesed in getting the KT88's. A tube that Richard did highly praise for its unique characterists, as you explain. That day at my home, he praised the KT90's and the KT88's for their qualities.
Can you tell me if the mids will have that same detail on the 88's that I now have on the 90's.
I don't want a muddled mid image, but would like atad more warmth.
Am I clear?
btw whats a set of 88's gonna run me.
I need to get back to New Orleans and ck up on Richard's shop on Jefferson Hwy. Last time I talked to him was just before the storm, we talked about retubing my Cayin 17 with 4 high quality tubes vs the stock tubes.
Although not all of Metairie flooded, his area I believe was flooded. His TV repair shop was across from Ochner hospital. The front door was street level so I'm sure it was bad. Yes I know, STREET LEVEL, many houses in greater new orleans were built STREET LEVEL.
All of lakeview/most of new orleans is a ghost town, With only chat of rebuilding houses. But so far lakeview/gentilly remains as it was the day Katrina hit, with some houses gutted, many are not.
Do you have a contact # for Richard?
Paul