Jadis Orchestra Reference SE and DA-50 Integrateds

"Bartok are you in france?"
Hi Joe
No I live i n Baton Rouge. Recently displaced by hurricane Katrina, lived in Lakeview, was at home during the storm. My stereo/cds were saved, unlike many others who evacuated w/o knowing the consequences.
I bought the Jadis from the US dealer, came with KT90's, Richard Grey told me, "mighty fine tubes, do not go with others". So not sure if I really want/need the KT88's.
The thing with the JOR is that lack of "punch" you refer to that the DA60 has in ample supply, the DA30 as well.
However I really was impressed with a friend's Cayin 300, and since then I have bought 2 Cayin Tube cdp's. Both fine output.
The Cayin 500 is in a class above most Cayin's. One can see from the photio those U29's are pretty amazing looking tubes.
So I managed to call a dealer in france. And from a short chat with him, I do not speak french, he spoke fair english, he had only the highest praise for the 500. He wanted me to understand one descriptive, "imaginique" How the music has a clear imaginable image in production, depths of reality I guess he wanted to express..
Now I guess the DA60 produces extra-ordinary sound reproduction as well. This I have no boubts.
I might be able to ship a 500 MK for $3600.
The DA60 runs about $6K.
I'd really hate to comapare the 2 in a test, as I'd want both.
Most likely I'll go with the Cayin, 1-2 yrs from now.
I'm expecting the 500 to delieve some heft, she weighs in at about $80 lbs.
The DA60 goes heaviey than that I believe.
The DA60 is not easy to get out my mind.
"a last amp" for sure.
Which tubes are best with the DA60?
Paul

Bill, take the Jadis specs with a grain of salt...

For example, on their own website, they list the JA800 as using 4 KT90 output tubes, a fraction of what the number is in reality. Also, the Class A/B JOR is listed as consuming 300 watts, while the pure Class A DA30 using the same output tubes uses 240 watts? I doubt it...

I believe the DA60 is $11K+. The JOR for $2900 is a really nice deal, the DA50, IMHO, at $6500 seems quite dear. Then again, to get most of what the DA60 offers, maybe it is a good deal. While the prices seem high to me, when you compare them to buying separates, spending as much, and not doing as well sonically, maybe I need to adjust my thinking?

Oh, one other thing, despite what just about everyone will tell you, go for the tone controls if you settle on the JOR. Being able to tilt the bass up two clicks sounded very right in many cases to me.

Paul, my heart goes out to you over the Katrina tragedy. Thankfully, you seem to have landed on your feet. I think you are very wise in your thinking. But, I will say that me and Richard Grey are in total disagreement when it comes to the Ei KT90.

I used to think they were great tubes as well, and there is no more robust tube on the market. But, when I retubed my JOR for Denis (Springbok10), it is difficult to express how much better the amplifier got. Yes, the KT90 make more power, and yes, they are the most extended in the bass and treble. But, being able to flesh out the midrange versus having a more cold, sterile sound is a tradeoff anyone who falls in line with what we talked about Jadis offering will make every day of the week. Both the KT88 and the EL34 were several steps ahead, in short, you have no idea how much better your JOR can really sound until you are ready for a retube.

Aball, what about a DA30 or a DA60 in lieu of the JOR versus the DA50? That way, you can run either the EL34 or the KT88, depending on where you are along the way. Based on my feeling, cost, and your opinion, things are starting to tilt towards the JJ Blue Glass E34L in my DA60, though Avi Brand is not an EL34 fan, he is trying to steer me to the KT88.

Denis, it's hard to put into words how happy I am that you are enjoying the JOR as much as you do. It's a shock, actually, you have a murderer's row of equipment in the big system. Obviously, to impress you is an accomplishment. I was more than a bit nervous when it went up to you, as you had tried and rejected a number of highly rated components. But, your endorsement is something that Jadis must be extremely proud of. I doubt you'll be going back to the Ei KT90 tubes...

Just gor off the phone with Richard Grey, he is doing OK. Richard rode the storm out at his house uptown new orleans, off Carrollton.
His house had damage from a fallen tree and his business had very little damage. I was very gald this great guy made out all right.

Joe which KT88's are you refering to?
Price?
I really don't want to spend over say...$50/tube.
Paul

Hello, Paul. Glad to hear that Richard is doing well. From all accounts, he is a really good person.

If you have little need for ultimate bass extension, but prize midrange "rightness" over absolutely all else, the JJ Blue Glass E34L tube is for you. In my experience, no tube will provide you with better clarity, openness, imaging, and "sunny disposition", while not sounding harsh, overly forward, brittle, or muddled. I think the treble is also quite good. You do take somewhat of a step back in terms of absolute power (2 clicks on the JOR's volume knob), and the loss of bass impact is definite. You can pick up a quad of these tubes for about $65, so being just over $15/tube, they definitely meet your budget. After speaking with Denis, and going over this sonic priorities, we chose these tubes, and I was not quite prepared for the improvement they yielded.

If the loss of power and bass is unacceptable, the JJ KT88 are the ones we are speaking of. They provide ultimately less absolute bass extension, but apparent bass impact will seem to rise (and not subtly), as the mid/upper bass is more pronounced, and most people in my experience seem to equate mid/upper bass with what they think is actually low bass. You will lose that wonderful midrange by a step or two, but it still would be a real upgrade over the Ei KT90. Prices are much higher than the E34L, about $150/quad or so, which still easily falls within your budget.

I want to make sure no one takes me as not being a fan of the Ei KT90. The tubes are the most rugged I have encountered, and for those who want no one area to stick out, they do seem to provide that. Also, prices have come down in recent years, as they spiked sharply after the 1998 NATO bombing of the factory in the former Yugoslavia. Still, while liking the JOR a lot with these tubes, I ended up loving it when I tried the others.

Incidentally, Denis, if you are still here, what type of difference did the Mullard 12AX7 provide you over the Ei? In my DA30 over the summer, I originally had a pair of National, and the Ei were a step up. Then, I tried a pair of Mullard Blackburns, and that also yielded some tangible improvements over the Ei, with no drawbacks that I could detect. Clarity, detail, bass response all improved, along with adding more liquidity and a relaxed nature. I'm curious if the Mullards also gave you the same improvement as I heard over the Ei.