Transformer based passives vs passive stepladder

Hi Atmasphere (Ralph?),

Don't active tube preamps face similar hysterisis issues with their own output transformers?

I have a DIY S&B transformer volume control and am very, very, happy with the performance in my fairly resolving system. I'm not wworn to any particular component design, but have found it very hard to match the TVC's quiet, transparency, tonal body & weight, and dynamics - especially at low volumes.

That said, my experience with preamps is nowhere near yours and I take your advice with great confidence. The only problem will be finding a preamp that significantly outperforms the TVC at a comparable <$700 price up to $2k.

BTW, congrats on weathering the storm with your company and keeping it where it should be - in your hands. I used to frequent your user forum a few years back and was always impressed by the satisfaction and dedication of your customers. You and your employees have forged a priceless bond with with them.

Atmasphere - so are you saying that EVS and Endler, by virtue of the fact they are passive attenuators at the input of the amplifier, are immune from artifact associated with other passives as a result of eliminating the IC?

Bear in mind I love my active linestage which is a Joule Electra LA-100 MkIII. I'm just trying to rid myself of the issue where there is too much gain in the system. With my analog set-up the Joule, my amp, and phonostage provide ample gain and I have a lot of flexibility on the volume control. The digital set-up is a bit different. The passive approach here seems to be necessary to get what I need.

I do have one other option. Perhaps sending the unit back to Joule and having them reduce the gain on the CD output could be a solution. This would eliminate the need for a passive attenuator at the amp input.

The problem is that you have to control the volume somehow. In active line stages and in the case where the passive is at the input of the amp, there is no interconnect cable that has to be controlled. It does seem that the interconnect cable (in tandem with the input impedance of the amp) is playing a huge role.

Problems come in if you want a different input and to a lesser degree if you have monoblocks. Passives make this inconvenient. A proper line state OTOH *should* allow you some distance from the amplifiers plus provide switching capability.

Back in the old days there were standards for input levels and the like, but that seems to have gone out the window with Digital Winter- almost as if digital would be the only thing you would listen to, so many CD players and DACs have high voltage outputs as they are intended to drive the amp directly. Its a hubris of sorts (it may be Digital Winter but I find new LPs all the time) and you wind up with too much gain if a line stage gets interjected. I understand that money is always an issue but it remains true that you get what you pay for. I wish more digital gear had jumper switches like the Wadia stuff that would allow you to select different output levels- it would make this stuff easier!

Thanks for the clarification Atmasphere.

In the case of my S&B TVC, I run true balanced output from the transformers and balanced interconnects to Jensen JT-11P4-1 input transformers which do the conversion back to single-ended for my amps.

Except in the case of my fully differential DIY Audiotropic PP 7591A amp which takes balanced inputs directly into the 1st stage.

Cable length/impedence and noise don't really seem to be a big factor here as long as my sources are capable of driving my amps.

So, Clio, you also find too much gain in some sources, such as CD using the Electra? I find that pseudo passives such as the active First Sound Paramount I use have the same issue. Usually is fine, with LP or Phono preamp through (low gain) but when it comes to CDP or other sources, sometimes it can get loud too fast. I wonder if this is the implementation of a preamp with OA2 tubes paired with 6922 or something else. The fact is that I have come to the realization that I have plenty of gain and that it can distort the original way things were recorded. I also have a pair of EVS nude Ultimate Attenuators and it does the job of attenuating the gain as transparently as possible, but how Atmasphere has already stated, sometimes, pursuying the last bit of purity sometimes has more drawbacks than benefits....

Nevertheless, I still dream of have one less stage, if possible in the signal chain.

Has anyone heard the SILVER ROCKS somewhere?

Paul K