Sonic difference between the CAT JL2 Sig & CAT JL3

Wow, roaming around on the Avalon site makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. These things are works of art.

Bart, there might be some value to further research the VTL 750 amps. Albert Porter has had these for a year or so, and after much tube experimentation, he is very excited with their performance. He uses two pairs in his system. And he is a heck of a nice guy here so he shuold be able to give you some insights as to pros/cons of these amps. I have pestered him to try a pair of JL-2s in his system just to get an idea of the CAT vs. VTL sound but getting a pair of CATs is not an easy task and again, he really likes the VTLs.

And concerning the Callisto, I love this thing. But it took me a year, and for the Io as well, to go through a lot of tube trials to really get this thing to perform like nobody's business. And a quick look under the hood by Steve Huntley of GNSC here in MN shows there is much to be improved in these units with significant parts updates, wiring changes, etc., that far exceeds their "Signature" updates. But before you lock yourself too tight on the Aesthetix train, I hope you can try other models in your system vs. the UII.

As for the Stealth, when the Io and Manley Ref DAC return from their GNSC updates, and the JL-3s back from their mods, I will be ready to try some of the Stealth Dream/Indra vs the Dominus throughout the system. I will certainly let you know how that all works out.

John

Bart, FWIW, I've been driving my JL-3 Sig's with an ARC Ref 3 for about a month, and I consider the match to be pure heaven. Earlier tried a C-J Act2, but I greatly prefer the Ref 3 with these amps.

Thanks for that comparison Klinerm. There was another poster, David Shapiro, who owned Osiris for four years and ended up with the Boulder 2060 amps driven by the ARC Ref3
which he said was a match made in heaven. I guess the Ref3
works well in different settings. It is definitely on my list of preamps to audition. I also haven't ruled out the VTL 750's for an amp audition. I bought the Tice Power Block and Titan combo from Albert Porter about 15 years ago. I agree he is a very nice guy. There must be some audiogoners out there that have compared the VTL 750/450 to the CAT JL2/JL3, maybe they will chime in, or do I need to start a new thread?

A few related thoughts,that I hope is basically related to Bart's subject matter.
I own Ascent Series II's(as you know,Bart).These were first heavily recommended to me,by Michael Gindi,who I knew some years back.Lost touch,over time.
He had the same previous speaker,as me(Infinity Beta).He was in love with the musicality of the Ascent's and ran a few amps on them,as he was a reviewer and was privy to a good amount of equip.I know he settled,for a time,on the Jadis JA-200's.UNTIL THE CAT CAME IN,ONE DAY!!He went wild over this amp(it was the single chassis model,then).
Obviously the CAT works well with this pedigree of Avalon(the Osiris is a fuller,more built up version of the Ascent,yet shares similar "voicing" choices.
The Avalon's at that time worked fabulously with the Rowland amps of that era.I have had my "two chassis" 8t modded four times,and a fifth mod being done,now,to stay abreast of technology,and keep the "very tube-like magic" the combo has.REALLY!!I am hard pressed to ascribe a specific coloration to the amp's sound,in the "tube vs solid state" category.I LOVE the finest tube units,yet there has been REAL increases in true musical performance(timbres,and harmonic naturalness)from the best SS designs.
Now there is the ergonomic aspect of simply enjoying your system,with regards to keeping "the heat factor" at bey.This really is a BIG deal,in the long run!!
For that reason alone,I must heartily recommend Bart give a listen to the ASR Emitter amp.Though my recommending this is definitely not set in stone!
I have heard it on the BIG(gigantic) NOLA Exotica Grand.It is everything one has read/heard about it.Low maintenance,and think about long term product happiness,from an ergonomic,real world standpoint.NOT alot of heat,the most extended highs I have ever heard(by far),and 280 "Osiris loving" wpc.BALLS to boot!!
As for the low power tube amp(Kondo/Ongako) working satisfactorily on the FABULOUS OSIRIS,please give me a break!I love this amp,and have heard it.Working well and being "ideal" are two different things.
About four years ago,the Ascents(though discontinued at the time)were demoed at the Tokyo Hi Fi show using the Ongaku amp.It won best sound at show,from what I read,at the time.Do I really believe I could get the most dynamics from such a combo?No,but there is definitely a harmonic beauty that would be hard to match.A question of priority,I guess!Forget about Mahler,or "The Who"!Yet Joni Mitchell would sound great!
Yes,the Osiris is not a tough load,but if one wants to get the "absolute max" from it,in terms of dynamic capability,and harmonic purity(not easy),you really MUST do some legwork,and listen for yourself.Also,ask yourself if "long term" pleasure relates to ONLY sonics,or is the "comfort factor" of HEAT going to be a long term issue.
I would LOVE to try some of the better tube units,today,but having heard almost everything available in the NY tri-state area(in other systems,unfortunately)I really(without the common rationalism factor)don't think I'm missing out,and I may decide to listen at "any time" in July or August,when temps run "not too cool".My "tube's at any cost" friends basically close down during those months.A/C or not!
As to the new Avalon line.Wonderful stuff,as is SO many other products(take a gander at the 60,000 dollar Peak Consult Diablos...7 ohm load,and a 94 db rating!!!WOW,WOWEE in a real-world -room dynamic design....my latest wet dream)yet the newer Avalons are a much more demanding load,and will surely demand much more from the selected amp.A big deal,at this level.The marketing guys won't linger,too long,on that.

BTW--had my pre/phonostage completely rebuilt by Steve Huntley.Expensive,and worth every cent!!

Best to all,and sorry for my length!!

Sirspeedy, I purchased the pair of Ascents that Michael Gindi used to write a review for Sounds Like magazine. I really liked that mag and Gindi's reviews, too bad they didn't last long. Bill Wells who I think published that mag bought the pair Gindi reviewd and I bought them from him. I know the Rowland amps work well with Avalons and other speakers. I heard Rowlands drive the Eclipse at the 96 NYC show, extremely detailed, delicate and musical. There is a agoner that is selling the ASR Emitter 2 for a good price but it is a 240vac model. I would have to run a 240 line which isn't out of the question. I have emailed him a couple of times. He wants to replace the ASR with a VTL 7.5 and Rowland 302. That Peak Consult sounds like a keeper. It would be nice to have the kind of flexibility in amplification selection that speaker will allow. I expect the next Home entertainment show will be in NYC and I can check out some possibilities. I am working backwards from the speakers and have the cables. The next step is the amp or possibly preamp. I'll due the front end last. I recently bought a tube tester and have learned that a bunch of the NOS tubes I have purchased are bad, another reason to consider SS if I find something that has the liquid presentation that tubes offer. I realize that the Ongaku would not be able to do dynamics and slam factor effectively on the Osiris. I was just relaying the story that Lucien told me to dismiss all the posts I read about the Osiris being a very difficult load, it is not. BTW Sirspeedy have you heard the CAT JL2 Sig and or JL3? There is a dealer in north Jersey I am thinking about visiting. I guess I would suffer with the heat if the tube amps I audition better the SS.