Can I expect to pay full retail for a new system?

Examples:

Purchased $5,000.00 speakers, new, from authorized dealer for $3,900.00.
Purchased $3,200.00 speakers, new from dealer, for $2,400.00.
Purchased $4,500.00 amp, new from dealer, for $3,600.00.
Purchased $1,400.00 subwoofer, new from dealer, for $1,100.00.

I like to buy new if the dealer is willing to happily negotiate. If the dealer grudgingly does so (and let's you know he's unhappy with it) then I probably won't shop there much. I firmly believe that if high end dealers would "deal" more, more new people would be drawn into the hobby. I've introduced a number of people to high end audio, most of whom were completely put off by the high prices and the unwillingness of dealers to "deal". If the dealer would bring up the subject first, once realizing the customer is put off by the price, I think more high end sales would occur.

I recently contacted a local rather large dealer who carries Dynaudio and inquired about the Focus line. He was almost completely dismissive about those speakers and gave me the hard sell about a pair of $4,000.00 Dynaudios that he had as demos. He was willing to knock 15% off them. My opinion was "whoopee!" I should get more than that from a new pair. I did not go back and looked elsewhere.

Also, if you can swing cash, I'll bet the discount will be deeper.

Full price, NEVER. On speakers, for example, what a dealer will PAY the manufacturer at $ 1,000.00, will sell to you at $ 2,000.00.

Keep this in mind, especially when the salesguy will tell you, '' Well, Sir, we hardly make any money on these (give him a Kleenex tissue, yeah, rrrrright) ''

I am not saying they shouldn't make a profit, I am just saying that they should earn their pay by being more than a wearhouse depot stop-over between the manufacturer and the buyer, and at least show a minimum of respect and competence for the buyer AND his budget.

Just an example. Not always, of course, but very frequent.

I figure a 10% minimum discount at all times. If not walk away before you change your mind. Full price is out of style, and shows a lack of respect.

I figure requesting 5% extra discounts per 6 months period the gear has been sitting on the dealer floor, is fair.

So, let's say 10% minimum discount plus another 10% if the gear has been sitting on the floor 1 year for 20% total.

2 years sitting on the floor? 30% discount, and so on until the dealer reaches near-cost selling price if the unit remains unsold. At which poing one has to ask himself WHY is the gear unsold right?

Demos with scratches? Walk away. You can do better on the A'goner buying from an owner who pampered his gear. There are many.

Dealer is snobbing you? (quite frequent) walk away.

With some of these dealers, it's better to walk away with your pride than to suffer incompetent service and bad advice.

Of course there ARE dealers that will provide great service and prices. Just just have to find them I guess.

It's tough to negotiate without a point of reference. On most hardware, the typical markup is 40%+. If you've done your homework/research [as you should have] then it is a half hour of the good lady's/fellow's time and you can and should ask for perhaps 30%. Most dealers would asnd should be happy with 10% except the Armani-clad set on Rodeo Drive. Return privileges may suggest a smaller discount.

Americans are terrifed of negotiating while it is common practice in most other parts of the world. We never learned how! Some vendors are even insulted when you don't! Grow a set and demand value for your precious lucre. But respect the dealers overhead at the same time. A good guide to reputable dealers and their cutomers satisfaction is available right here on Audiogon. I trust that part is still free.

I would start off with telling the sales rep everything you want in detail and then tell him you want his best price. If there are no alternative dealers where you have less pull. A package is always the best way to get the best price. Remember here though, if you make the price too skinny, the sales rep will not be interested in making you a customer for life. Tripper is right on price and potential discount.