Can tube amps give true high end bass?

T_BONE: Another question back at you would be... how much tube power (watts vs output impedance) would one need to adequately power an 8ohm 96db woofer? say, the way a 40W solid state amp might...

Theoretically, Watts are exactly the same whether they come from a solid-state or a tube amp, so a 40 Watt tube should produce the same acoustic output as a 40 Watt SS amplifier. In practice, it depends on how conservative are both manufacturers on their power specs, but the differences should be negligible even for differences up to tens of percent (for example, a 40 W SS amp vs. a 30-60 W tube amp).

A more relevant factor is: How loud you like your music? With 40 Watts, you can have undistorted peak acoustic levels of about 112 dB at 1 meter with your speaker in anechoic conditions. Adding the other speaker and the room gain, you could easily surpass 120 dB peaks in your seat!! Ironically, at such loud levels a solid-state amplifier with better bass extension might stress your speakers and cause them to produce a phenomenon known as "Doppler distortion" (don't confuse this with another, notorious concept mentioned in the H-thread). In this case, a tube amplifier having weaker bass would produce a cleaner, more enjoyable sound, provoking the logical conclusion that the tube amp sounds "better" than the more accurate solid-state amp. The morals of the story is: If you want powerful low bass from your amplifier, first make sure your speakers can handle it!

Regards,

""The are no worries about 'stopping' and 'starting'- unless you listen to some very weird, amusical stuff that no-body has made up yet :)""

I don't agree with this.Every bass drum pedal hit is a sudden start and stop.Of course,it is an electric waveform,but our ear hears it as "start and stop".
And if you have dynamic double bass (in heavy metal for ex.),it will sound better with SS.More tight and controlled.

Atma is obviously an expert and knows more on subject than the rest of us.But i only report what i heard myself.
I thought damping factor was a part of it,and i am still not convinced it isn't.I read Atma's post a few times,and i'm still gonna get into that.But obviously Peak and Recovery time is better with SS.
I like tube amps more,espec. SET,but SS also has its strong points.

Audiobb, I play heavy metal too and I also have a few friends in the heavy metal world and I opened for Therion when they toured here a couple of years ago. The start and stop of a Kick drum is *way* too slow for any sort of stop and start that might actually be a 'damping factor' phemon! If you look at a bass drum waveform, you will see that even in a fast double bass passage, the waveform dies out as the kicker pedal is damping the waveform. Speakers are a whole lot faster than that: even a 15" has bandwidth to 500-800Hz. The bass drum (actually a typical area where 'damping factor' is brought up) is a red herring.

Jmaldonado's comment about bass extension is non-sensical, although I have to guess that it is only based on his experience. So I will share an experience of our own:

Some years back we used the Snell Model B for our main system. The speaker is full range, and was easily driven by our smaller M-60, although it was only 89 db. We went through 4 sets of woofers before Snell replaced the woofers with a re-engineered set that was more durable. We were not damaging the voice coils- the spider part of the suspension was failing, due to the excursions we were putting the speaker through (we like to play stuff with impressive bass tracks, as with 1 Hz full power in our amps, the bass we get is a strong point in our products). Snell told us that they had the same problem with mastering houses that were doing lots of dance tracks with heavy bass (we were playing that sort of material too)- see http://www.atma-sphere.com/awards/bya/index.html
for some of the discography.

So tube amps can put as much excursion on a speaker cone as a transistor amp, FWIW. In our case, in repeated demos with transistor amps, I have yet to see one that has proper bass extension. So while I accept that transistor amps can play bass, I do not accept that they can do it any better than a proper tube amp.

Atmasphere,
i would like your opinion on amp-building for my speakers.
I own Silverline Sinfonia.Link:
http://www.silverlineaudio.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=18
Each speaker has 3 connections,so is tri-ampable.

1.connec. - treble and 2" midrange
2.connec. - 7" mid-bass and front 12" woofer
3.connec. - 12" rear woofer

The first idea for amp was 6 320B XLS monoblocks (3 per speaker).Silverline also liked it.

But now,for me it seems the best to use 320B XLS on first and 2nd conn.,and bipolar transistor monoblock (limited on 18 W,same power as 320B XLS) on rear 12" woofer.

Reason-peak and recovery time.Same thing is also recommended
to me by two constructors,both in bussines more than 10 years.
But now you say that proper tube amp can also give what i need.So i am puzzled.What would you use in my place?
Keep in mind,all can be built EXACTLY to my wishes.And i will use constructed amps(of excellent quality),not Krell or Ayre or CJ finished products.

The rest of my system:
CD-still not decided(volume contr. will be in CD pl. or DAC,eliminating separated pre-amp)
IC-Gabriel Gold Revelation (whole system)
Speaker cable-Nordost Valhalla (whole system)
Silverline Sinfonia speakers

I mostly listen to heavy metal (90%).Also jazz,some classical and blues and acoustic music.

Audiobb, This is an interesting speaker- it seems like it has a dual woofer system, but apparently the second woofer is on a different circuit.

So that would seem to make all the circuits 8 ohms. I would check with Silverline on this to be sure.

Asking an amp manufacturer like me what amp they would use seems to me a loaded question- of course I recommend my own gear :). Alan's speakers have always worked well with our stuff. He invited us to show with him at CES one year (in fact on another year we did have equipment in his room) but some nasty events that some 'goners may remember intervened.

My feeling is that whatever amp you get, I would be careful about crossing everything over. My own experience with electronic crossovers is that you spend a lot of time getting things to blend- often never quite getting there. Using the same type of amp on each part of the system helps, but you can still run into difficulties. At any rate, it sounds ambitious- good luck with it!