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Help mismatch maybe?

Hello folks,

I recently purchased a pair of Quad 21L2's here on Agon. I tried them with some older Adcom electronics, which were uninvolving. Having read alot of good things about Nad products, and since they were in my price range, I purchased a C372 Intergraded amp here on Agon. The sound of the Nad and Quads are very detailed which I like more then less. Although, I would like the sound to be a little fuller & organic in the midrange. As it stands right now, the system sounds as though the treble control is almost maxed and the bass control is half way on the minus side. (I am in tone defeat mode).
My wife who is also my listening buddy, finds the setup too bright for her ears, and she is unable to listen with me now, unless the volume is very low. Our listening tastes in music range from Classical, to Classic Rock to Jazz, to Female/Male vocals, and everything in between.

Our front end consist of a Arcam FMJ CD23. IC's are of the Monster, and Z squared varity. PC's are PS and Z squared types. SC's Monster M2's Speakers are on the long wall in a Near Field configuration far away from the side walls and at least 3 feet from the rear. I have tried various placement scenario's and the NF seems to be the best overall.

Now, Is it possible That the Nad and the Quads are a mismatch?
If so, I would like to keep the Quads. If it's the electronics, I would like to stay with a Intergrated amp.
Are there any simular experiences, or recommendations you could offer?

Any help along these lines would be appreciated.
Thanks.
mickey13
aball
2,018 posts
 
Indeed, your speakers are way undersized for your room. I have four 7" woofers in a room that is 14x15x8. With that I have a flat bass response from 300Hz down to 18Hz (+-4dB). That is what you need to have a full-range and balanced sound.

So for 26x16x12, you need a healthy subwoofer or much larger speakers. Cables and amps will not fix your problem. Your "mismatch" is only between speakers and room. Sorry for the bad news.

Arthur
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,314 posts
 
If upgrading is an option, maybe the 22L with dual woofs might help?
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,844 posts
 
You have a mismatch. The speakers are a Power Paradigm device (they expect constant power from the amplifier, regardless of load), and your amplifiers so far are Voltage Paradigm (they make constant voltage regardless of load). Anytime you mix the two a tonal aberration is created; in this case your description is exactly how this combination will act. For more information see:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,314 posts
 
Atmasphere,

I understand your argument from other threads, I think, but aren't 99% of our systems technically "mismatched" based on your criteria?

What about an amp that doubles into 4 and 2 ohms better than the NAD, say a good Class D or a modest Musical Fidelity A3CR for that matter? Is there a better solution for speakers with complex loads of 8 ohms or less?
mb9061
137 posts
 
I have a pair of 22L2s in a room that measures 24' long by 12' deep by 7 1/2' ceiling. Speakers are on the long wall, a little more than 2' from side wall (left speaker), about 8 1/2' feet apart and about 1 1/2' from the back wall (measured to rear port). Zero problem with bass. Too much in most cases, but I find moving the speaker forward or back in 1/2 inch increments to either add or subtract LF response significantly. I've paired these speakers with an MF 308I integrated, an Anthem Statement A5 multichannel, a Sunfire multichannel and now another MF Integrated (an A5 this time that is rated 250x2 into 8 ohms). Zero problems with lack of bass response.

That said, unless your ceiling is the culprit (I doubt it), I'd suggest trying different amps and getting the speakers a little closer to the wall by 1/2" increments to see what you can come up with. I doubt the 21L2's are that lacking considerably in bass response compared to the 22L2s (perhaps a bit, but not that much). The more current powerful the amp (not necessarily wattage), the more slam you'll get from the speakers. If you have isolation tweaks, try removing those too as I've found time and time again that they can thin the LF response, particularly with amplifiers. Make sure the speakers are level and not firing at an upward angle, as that may thin sound as well.

Try ICs next, but I wouldn't spend my money on them until I got a better amp in your situation.
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