Audio Research Ref. 210 questions

Hi, the question I have is a bit off topic I'm afraid. Sorry for that.

Quote from Mantis: "The Ushers sounded VERY good with the Lamms but I wanted a bit more power and missed the sound of a pure tube amp."

Some people/experts believe that there is no such thing as "tube" sound or the sound of a pure tube unit in comparison with a pure solid state one (provided that both are very well executed high quality units). So why do many audiophiles prefer tubes over solid state? There have to be inherent differences in "sound" between the two basic concepts in amplification. I do not believe that the difference are only due to "colorations". What do you think?

Chris

Chris

I have tried to luv SS amps quite a few times but keep on gojng back to tubes. IMO a nice tube amp will always have over its SS counterpart
- 3d soundstage where SS in comparison can sounewhat 2 dimensional and flat
- tonal meat on instruments whereas SS tends to just sound thinner
- mids and high frequencies on a great tube amp seem to float in space, flow from note to note and still be very transparent
- SS bass when volume is pumped up very loud can have a tendancy to get tighter and tighter, whereas tube bass spreads a little to give a slightly fatter sound - whicj IMO sounds more lifelike

Chris

I agree with what Downunder said regarding the comparison and I have had top notch solid state and I still prefer tube but not the heat or maintenance issues.

When I listen to solid state even with a tube pre it just isn't the same as with a good tube amp. Ideally I would love to find a solid state amp (mono blocks preferred) that can do this so if anyone knows of any kindly let me know.

Mantis007 regarding the three amps, Cary, Lamm and ARC I would have thought the Cary's would have given you want you are wanting with your Ushers, it's too bad you did not get to try. So far your listening experience with the 210's was what I found also, I thought possibly this was just with the dealers set-up but know you have confirmed what I heard also, most defiantly is a different sound of love or hate. I personally found the bass just wasn't there also and felt the highs rolled off but again this was in the dealers place but I still wasn't out ruling getting a pair to actually demo in my own space as there were to many other factors in play and did not want to out rule them. I would think that the Lamms you had would be a whole different beast, sounding totally different but I still feel that the Cary's you had could have been a great fit for you. You mentioned upgraded tubes in the Cary, what tubes did you upgrade. The Cary's when hooked up to your Vandy 5's I believe you really did not get to listen to their full potential mainly due to your Vandy design having the powered bass etc.

I am really interested in the Cary's can you give me some more info on how they sounded, how warm or hot do these run. Are they noisy? Strengths and weaknesses.

Dev, it seems the 210's really need time for the listener to become accustomed to them. I find them very musical and not rolled at either end - just very enjoyable with 3d wraparound quality. The soundstage is quite a bit wider than the Lamms in my system. Before the Cary's I had the Supratek Burgundy 4 chassis amps. They were outstanding but lacked a little drive. They ran out of steam pretty quick when pushed. If not pushed they were very nice. The Cary's had much more drive that the 100wpc Supras. The Cary's ran pretty warm but no more so than the Lamms or ARC's. I have a good size room thats open to the rest of the house so heat isn't a major factor. The Cary's were very quiet thru the speakers but did have a bit of transformer hum. I did find them just a little slow sounding at times but very enchanting. Hope this helped a little ;)

Mantis007, you might want to read Elberoth2's threads another member on Gon. He had the same Lamm's, he had Cary amps but the Cary 500 solid state and then REF210's and now 110 amp. I'm sure his thread will be helpful giving suggestions, he is currently using Wilson Sofia 2 speakers.

Thanks for the info., reading into your reply I did not see any real passion towards the Cary so I take it was not all that for you.