the classic tube sound & the modern tube sound

My dad owned and operated an electronics repair shop in Brooklyn and was a very strong proponent of tube equipment, mostly because of the ease to repair it ... replace a tube versus attempting to repair a printed board. I have been around tube gear all my life. My first tube systems were strictly hobbyist set-ups. Two that I remember were:

1. a Philco (before being acquired by Ford) tube amplifier and a Voice of Music turntable (crystal cartridge)
2. a Grundig tube amplifier with a Garrard turntable (crystal cartridge)

Speakers were homemade infinite baffle designs with Alnico speakers that my dad had available.

When I started working, I purchased solid state equipment and did not return to tubes until 4 years ago, when I purchased two Prima Luna tube amplifiers.

With all that said, what I liked best about the 50's/60's tube sound was the richness and immediacy of vocals. The sound always had presence. I don't remember being too concerned about accuracy per se, because there was a smoothness to the sound ... music just sounded good, regardless of the type of music. I had no problems using tone controls to even out the sound, that was what they were there for.

Then, I became an educated listener. I trusted wholeheartedly what EPI speakers was saying about not using tone controls and listening for linear sound. Thing is though, I was not always thrilled with the sound coming from my systems. Part of this was changing over from vinyl to CDs, though I was happy to be rid of pops & clicks. The big thing though, I was not getting the richness and warmth from solid state that I had gotten from tubes.

A few years back, I purchased two Prima Luna products ... the PL2 integrated and the PL5 power amp. I got back the richness of sound and almost holographic imaging that I had 35 years previously. What was different was the accuracy of the new tube amps ...they were almost as accurate as any good solid state amp that I had owned. The sound was not only immediate, but instruments were more distinct. Granted, I have comparatively way better speakers and source components than back in the day. But I don't remember the music coming from any amp in my dad's shop, sounding this clear and clean or the background sounding so quiet.

As an aside, I would accept on the face of it, when reviewers would say that a solid state amp sounded tube like. Not really. Even the most tube like sounding solid state amp does not sound like a tube amp.

To answer Mr. Tennis' question ... I prefer the tube sound of today. It is an improvement of what I remember from the older tube amps.

Best regards,

Rich

I used to own an ARC SP6a (almost 30 years ago) and thought it was the first step toward a neutral sound. It was a bit dry but clean and very nice.

I recently owned an Audio Note Soro SE and could never put my finger on what it sounded like. It was so neutral and chameleon like, it always served the music, a wonderful amp. I now own an Audio Note Meishu which is probably a bit warm but has such a huge soundstage and is so expressive that I do not mind the bit of 'tubey' sound. It may be the perfect compromise, though the bass is a bit muddy, and I would not want it any looser, so in that regard I need the modern version of tube gear with good extension.

So the bottom line for me is I need the new tube gear, the old stuff with the big bass and rolled off highs is too distracting and the new gear is still wonderful in the midrange so you get the best of both worlds.

I still prefer either to solid state and prefer either of those to digital but none of the above begin to approach live, not even close, so lets keep perspective and enjoy our crazy obsessive hobby!

I was told that the differences may be due to the upgrades in both sources and speakers. Vintage gear was not being fed by high end sources which reproduce much more of the audio spectrum accurately. The speakers many of us are using make a huge difference too. Compare the average speaker today to most of the speakers made in the 60's. We are demanding 20hz to 20khz response as a minimum. Try to get that out of an old pair of Bozaks? The designs had to change/improve.

That old "tubey" sound was due to us listening mainly to really nice warm midrange and not much more.

thanks all.

i am looking for a second preamp.

i am considering a cary slp 98, maybe audio valve eklips and audio note kit l2. i focus on the upper midrange/lower treble region.

ewwedhome, you have provided info that makes may pause before getting too interested in the cary because of its silver wire. thanks for the heads up. i can get a great deal on a new one, but, i don't know if i want to pursue it.

please keep the comments going. i'm learning a lot.

Mr.T,

"Cary slp98 pre-amp, various tubes - This is supposed to have something of the "good old tube sound." I didn't care for it. Many other people love it. Maybe I couldn't find the right tubes for it. But mine had silver wire in it, and it sounded like it had silver wire in it, and I don't care for that sound.

Cary slp 2002 pre-amp, stock - I preferred this to the 98 (again, in contrast to others' views). To me, it seemed like a good "in-between" pre-amp-- somewhat lush, but with pretty good extension and bass. And you can roll tubes."

Interesting that we just discussed this the other day. Perhaps your insights on the two pre-amps are correct.