What do you see as the downside of tubes?

Jafox-I think that one reached the upper deck and stayed fair.

Jayfox, Re: "In defense of Dave b". I too understand what he means but more importantly I understand why he arrives at his conclusions. That I think his reasoning is flawed, and certainly not in accord with mine (or yours) but what pleases his ears is all that counts in his house. However, anyone who considers his observation as any form of 'truth' certainly risks great disappointment.

BTW Jafox I agree with your views, especially those suggesting that signal decay is more often than not a signal truncated prematurely by most SS (and some tubed stuff as well) which makes their sound initially sound more "transparent", "detailed", etc, when in fact it is really inaccurate and creates a sterile, fatiguing sound, even though the frequency response is relatively flat. But some folks like this sound. I'm sure they would find 'my sound' thick, bloated, dense, slow, etc.

Dave b, A question - regarding your analogy involving the sound of music in a jazz club as reproduced by your system. Are you referring to performances you actually attended and that you have heard unamplfied performances, or that you have actually heard the events live that you are now listening to in a recorded form and that you are confident that you are in fact hearing something that occurred in the performance, not in the mixing booth (etc)? FWIW, I always find the assertion that someone finds any recording played over any equipment ever sounds like a live performance. It typically suggests to me that the person doesn't know the clues to listen to or doesn't get out much.

For example, consider that most live jazz club performances are not played with out amplification for each instrument and their sound is blended in with the sound of the acoustic (room) that may be overly resonant or damped, or that the amplyfing equipment itself, or speaker placement, produce an overly dense source, isn't it then possible that a SS system which truncates the signal length only makes the recording/your system sound move like a real live and unamplified one? Just a thought...........I don't understand how you can sort out all of these varibles. I always think that the best we can hope for is that we own the equipment envisioned by the recording engineer and that his efforts to make it sound 'live' are successful.

Hey Bill, Keep stiring the pot! But, why not share with us your underlying reasons for arriving at and making your terse observations. That way we could see some meaningful mud slinging! :-)

Jafox,

I totally believe you.

I am saying to all you never hear the H2O. My sound was crap at first. I learned I was hearing my preamp, wires, and speakers. I am not Bsing. I have found, through trial and error, what works, and what doesn't. The H2O builder was so disenchanted with preamps, he made his own. It is the perfect match. No more preamp worries. Next came the cables. Naked ribbon is the clear winner. Thirdly, the source is of critical importance. I have been working with the H2O builder to make a killer Audio Note DAC. The result is nothing like what stock AN DACs sound like.

Hell, it doesn't matter. Enjoy your music. I am.

Jafox, the advantage you hear with Aria may owe more to TX2575 resistors than to tube vs. SS paradigm. Lately to get a better grip on the tube vs. SS debate I've been all out modifying a SS ARC PH-2 in parallel with an Atma-Sphere MP-1 phono section. The usual assumptions about SS being flat, sterile, and lacking tonality relative to tubes does not apply once one replaces the red rectangular Wima MKP caps often used in ARC and many other SS gears. TX2575 resistors as used in Aria are peerless and found in no other commercial gears AFAIK. This story is unfinished until I've put 20-30 of them in SS ARC, but so far these highly modified tube & SS phono sections are pretty close.

I have recordings of concerts, both jazz and classical that I have attended. Both were unamplified. I have a piano, baritone, cello and flute in my house (my daughters have the talent). I don't need to convince myself or anyone else that what I'm hearing is more realistic. Audiofeil is obviously deeply disturbed going by the intensity of his anti-social rants. That said, I did not knock tubes or applaud SS...I've owned and enjoyed both. Right now I have a system synergy which does it for me on a repeat basis which happens to be SS. The special nature of the real thing is that it is clear, pure, accurate, extended and dynamic with no blurring, distortion or grain. Tonality of course must be dead on. The xtra something is that sense of energy that fills the venue when attending a concert, which many systems miss completely. Let's not forget that the material we listen to can effect our expectations as well.