Is too much power in an amp really a problem?

Jim, I just checked the manuals. The input impedance of the JRDG 102 is 48KOhms with a 27dB gain. The 250Wpc 201 monoblock has 40KOhms input impedance with user selectable 26db and 32db gain. Have not checked the W4S, but I suspect it's going to be similar to the 201 monos. Seems to me that with your speakers, besides impedance matching, the key may be a pre with moderate gain and very fine granularity on the volume knob. 0.5dB resolution or a little better may work. G.

Blindjim - I have similar problem. My 100W/8 ohm amp is driven by the Benchmark DAC1 used as line stage (volume control). Benchmark allows to adjust gain (jumpers inside) in 10dB steps but for some reason, I can't explain, it affects the sound. The best sound is at 0dB position (loudest - equivalent to nominal 26dB gain) what gives me full power at around 11 o'clock (89dB speakers).

Output/input impedance ratio have nothing to do with the power (very small division). Rowland uses instrumentation amp at the input (THAT1200) providing 40k input impedance, at least on my amp.

Kijank

I’m pretty sure the relationship between output imp of the preamp & input imp of the amp do play a part in how easy or hard the preamp has to work to supply sufficient gain/amplitude of the signal to the speakers

From the Ten Audio review of the W4S ST 1000 (125wpc @ 8) ….

“The Wyred 4 Sound stereo amplifiers have a completely custom balanced FET input stage that raises the input impedance from 10k Ohms, which is a difficult load for some preamplifiers, to 60.4k Ohms.”

(this article was accomplished with 107db speakers @ 4 ohms)

With appox 1 db steps on the tube pre, and way less sized ones on the HT pre (which BTW has a higher output imp), I’ll likely still worry about the actual amount of control I’ll have with such a combination.. I’d prefer at least a third of the vol range… no less.

I’m also getting the impression an ICE amp with 500 + wpc @ 8 is over kill, given my current and likely future, loudspeakers. As with either circumstance, $$$ does matter too, and there’s no sense in overbuying an amp solely for the security of the power bands generosity with real world applications in mind for it’s use.

As I’m sure through the use of some discretion on my part, and system concerns, more power isn’t so much THE issue as is the sonic signature of the amp and it’s integration with the system… as with either the Dodds or the Odyssey SE, the Sonata’s never appear as if they are running out of gas or seem strained… there good headroom available with either amp… 120wpc or 200 wpc @ 4 ohms, appx.

Both the pre and the receiver also drive a DD 15 when in use, which I’m sure contributes to the input imp amounts for the amps. Currently I can’t reach the 11 AM n position with the 120 wpc tube monos… (that off the 4 ohm taps!) ….and tha’ts way loud! Too loud for any extended listening periods for sure! Comfortable for the next room however.

I think an important aspect here is practical usability. Feasibility and power reserves aside, the bottom line is just how will the amps be used I think. In a setting such as I have, a medium sized room (2600 cu ft.) , moderately high eff speakers, and leaning towards being a mature listener, inordinate amounts of applicable power aren’t the primary focus… or so it appears presently.

If there are any other considerations I am still missing, I’d sure prefer hearing them…

I’d also care to hear from any other ICE amp owners as to the actual sonic signatures of their own installations, comparatively speaking of course.

Thanks much so far… you folks are super.

Blindjim - I'm sure there are preamps that won't drive well low input impedance (like 10k) of the power amp but it should be rather sound quality than its level. Assuming high output impedance - let say 1k and input impedance of 10k it will divide signal very little, 0.8dB to be exact.

I tried different jumper position on my Benchmark and the next one (-10dB) gives me best volume knob range but the worst sound (not as crisp and vivid). I checked Benchmarks manual and found that output impedance is the highest at this jumper setting = 1.6k. It should not make any difference with my 0.5m IC since it has only 5pF per foot but it does. I cannot explain it. Amp has 40k input impedance.

I've read reviews of 501 including some of the people who bought it after 201. Sound is pretty much the same but 501 is less congested at higher levels. Hearing scale is logarithmic so there is not much difference for us between 200W and 500W but a lot of difference for the speakers. I remember old concerts when bands used standard 100W Marshall amps and it was pretty loud. Now band like Rolling Stones count power in tens of kilowatts. For their concert in Chicago city had to update stadium electrical grid to provide necessary current.

A lot of power is good for one event but I listen at relatively low volumes most of the time. Lower volume makes for the better sound, at least in my room. My room is acoustically bright and has very tall ceiling. At low volumes I have good imaging and tone balance but at higher volume I start hearing more of an echo (multiple reflections) that before was to low to hear. In addition sound becomes brighter - not good thing in my setup.

Class D has this peculiar thing about listening at low levels that it keeps good sound/composure even at very low levels. My previous class AB amp was loosing highs and bass plus resolution was getting worse. I found this also mentioned in one of class D reviews.

BlindJim, the W4S appears to have a slightly higher input impedance than the JRDG 102 (60.4KOhms vs 48KOhms). You might as well give W4S a try. Regarding your concerns for volume knob listening position, if you get a pre with a continuously rotating volume control and a fine resolution, e.g. 0.5dB or better, you should be able to raise the volume very gradually even with a more powerful amp like the W4S driving your sensitive speakers. G.