Is too much power in an amp really a problem?

Oh Shucks Macro. . . now my dark secret's out! G.

Macrojack

Thanks as always, for the predominately insightful notes… albeit, 100 wpc isn’t 500 or 550 wpc. I do appreciate the efforts and time though

Kijanki - G-man

One practical part of this all is to have an enjoyable, user friendly exp. Not long ago I had a 250-400 wpc amp, w/26 db gain, and a pre w/23 db gain. I still have the pre…

The outcome with reportedly 89 db 6 ohm nominal’s combo did not allow for sweeping movements of the vol knob. The useable range of the knob became vastly reduced to an arc of around 20% of it’s normal span… or less.

This made for a tad more tedious use. Only little very quick zaps on the remote could be had to adjust the volume, thus very fine, precise sound levels may or may not be had. By the time the vol knob was at 10 am or so, one needed to be outside the home to prevent hearing loss with extensive listening periods. Normally, I’d not get much above the 9-9.30 range routinely.

That past exp while producing some really great sounds, hampered the exp with me always having to worry with getting to the ‘just right’ listening level… and of course, the ever present worry I could somehow nod off and somehow spin the vol up inadvertently some great degree and damage the speakers.

I see some wisdom in having finer control of the vol. Higher powered amps in my past reduced this greatly. I don’t recall getting my vol past 2pm in fact… and that’s a far cry from only being able to move it from 7.30AM to 9-9.30 before it’s very loud, and at 11 it runs you out of the house.

I figure impedance played a part in that scenario too. The BAT amp purported 100K… 50 + 50 on the xlr’s. I was only running RCA via adapters so 50K ??, back then.

The Wyred 4 report 62K roughly. Not sure as to Rowland, with some sort of imp matching device inline with the gain section.

My tube pre is 400 ohm output. My Onkyo Rec … well I’ve no idea but I’ll guess it’s higher by a good bit, given how it and the tube pre act with my SS amp… which may or may not make good sense to compare things that way.

Anyhow, I’d sure like to keep using at least half of the volume dial… not just 10-15% of it. I’ve noticed this vastly more sensitive vol knob action with SS amps having both high imp (100K) and good power, 150 to 250wpc into 8 ohms…. The higher the power the less I can move the volume knob.

Consequently, a 600 or 1000+ wpc into 4 ohm amp does imply a similar circumstance may well prevail again, were such an amp (s) be employed… or does this not reflect high powered ICE amp implementation?

Oshag

Not being the sort that unquestionably takes the notes of any reviewer as golden, I look for supportive comments from other's I trust more... here. Hemce my posted concerns.... duh.

Jim, I just checked the manuals. The input impedance of the JRDG 102 is 48KOhms with a 27dB gain. The 250Wpc 201 monoblock has 40KOhms input impedance with user selectable 26db and 32db gain. Have not checked the W4S, but I suspect it's going to be similar to the 201 monos. Seems to me that with your speakers, besides impedance matching, the key may be a pre with moderate gain and very fine granularity on the volume knob. 0.5dB resolution or a little better may work. G.

Blindjim - I have similar problem. My 100W/8 ohm amp is driven by the Benchmark DAC1 used as line stage (volume control). Benchmark allows to adjust gain (jumpers inside) in 10dB steps but for some reason, I can't explain, it affects the sound. The best sound is at 0dB position (loudest - equivalent to nominal 26dB gain) what gives me full power at around 11 o'clock (89dB speakers).

Output/input impedance ratio have nothing to do with the power (very small division). Rowland uses instrumentation amp at the input (THAT1200) providing 40k input impedance, at least on my amp.

Kijank

I’m pretty sure the relationship between output imp of the preamp & input imp of the amp do play a part in how easy or hard the preamp has to work to supply sufficient gain/amplitude of the signal to the speakers

From the Ten Audio review of the W4S ST 1000 (125wpc @ 8) ….

“The Wyred 4 Sound stereo amplifiers have a completely custom balanced FET input stage that raises the input impedance from 10k Ohms, which is a difficult load for some preamplifiers, to 60.4k Ohms.”

(this article was accomplished with 107db speakers @ 4 ohms)

With appox 1 db steps on the tube pre, and way less sized ones on the HT pre (which BTW has a higher output imp), I’ll likely still worry about the actual amount of control I’ll have with such a combination.. I’d prefer at least a third of the vol range… no less.

I’m also getting the impression an ICE amp with 500 + wpc @ 8 is over kill, given my current and likely future, loudspeakers. As with either circumstance, $$$ does matter too, and there’s no sense in overbuying an amp solely for the security of the power bands generosity with real world applications in mind for it’s use.

As I’m sure through the use of some discretion on my part, and system concerns, more power isn’t so much THE issue as is the sonic signature of the amp and it’s integration with the system… as with either the Dodds or the Odyssey SE, the Sonata’s never appear as if they are running out of gas or seem strained… there good headroom available with either amp… 120wpc or 200 wpc @ 4 ohms, appx.

Both the pre and the receiver also drive a DD 15 when in use, which I’m sure contributes to the input imp amounts for the amps. Currently I can’t reach the 11 AM n position with the 120 wpc tube monos… (that off the 4 ohm taps!) ….and tha’ts way loud! Too loud for any extended listening periods for sure! Comfortable for the next room however.

I think an important aspect here is practical usability. Feasibility and power reserves aside, the bottom line is just how will the amps be used I think. In a setting such as I have, a medium sized room (2600 cu ft.) , moderately high eff speakers, and leaning towards being a mature listener, inordinate amounts of applicable power aren’t the primary focus… or so it appears presently.

If there are any other considerations I am still missing, I’d sure prefer hearing them…

I’d also care to hear from any other ICE amp owners as to the actual sonic signatures of their own installations, comparatively speaking of course.

Thanks much so far… you folks are super.