Luxman L505u . . . why not?

Mark Toronto, Chashas1, and all: Luxman amps vs Leben, and Luxman CD players...

I just got back from the shop with some heavy stands for my new B&W 805s as second speakers, as well as some nice marble slabs to put between them and the tatami mat floor.

I talked with the main guy regarding his opinion about how Luxman C-5 and C-6 cd players are perceived in Japan. He thinks that they are not preferred by younger people, but are so by older listeners, because they have the "sweet and mellow" (his words) sound characteristic of Luxman (he calls it "The Luxman sound"), whereas younger Japanese people often prefer harsher, more powerful and trebly rendering.

I also asked him for some thoughts about my Primaluna Prologue Two, which has disappointed me because on the one hand it gets such rave reviews from so many online audiophile sites, yet to my ears and my wife's it is not better than my old, plain, not famous Luxman 507; in fact, it sounds more obviously distorted and even harsh sometimes to us. My trial period with it ends on Jan 20, and so I have to decide whether to give it up or not soon.

He explained that the Primaluna line, like the Leben, represent MODERN tube sound, and that they are excellent values for that type of amp. He thinks American ears are attuned to harsh and overly powerful amps and sound systems, often based on transistor amps that he considers basically "bad," so that when an American hears clear sounds through tubes like the Primaluna or Leben, we are enthralled by it in comparison. In reality, those amps are not necessarily better-sounding than many old tube amps and integrateds, but in comparison to the harsher stuff we're used to, they sound great. This made some sense to me in the context of all the old collectible stuff in his shop.

Chashas1, before you read my short blurb on it let me qualify my words by pointing out that I am no expert in this at all, just a novice and beginner in audio, and am only offering what my own ears told me. I am a bit older than many in here I imagine, and have heard lots over the years, though.

I had brought my Luxman 507 to the shop to compare to the Leben CS300X. I played a range of music on CDs from a LINN Magik-CD, output through some Diatone speakers, only because there were no others even close in type to my Yammies that day. The shop has a super-fast turnover rate.

The CDs I had included (of course) Miles's "Simply Blue," some drum-and-bass-loaded Brazilllian Samba, a string quartet by Wagner, Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture (complete with explosions on the crescendo!), Ella Fitzgerald with Louis Armstrong, Sade, Jimi Hendrix, Arethra Franklin, Maria Callas, Ravi Shankar, and some great whiney, nasal, banging-and-clanging Chinese Opera.

I played about 1 minute of one item, then switched amps and listend to the same sequence, then went to the next item.

The Leben was definitely even more clear and detailed than the already clear Luxman. On the faster stuff like Aretha, Jimi, and the Brazillians, the Leben was "punchier" and "more energetic." (I am sorry that I don't know standard vocal to describe these things, and hope you can grasp what I mean to convey). Over the range from mid-bass through upper-midrange, the Leben gave a somewhat wider staging presentation with subtly more clearly-defined imagined. Unfortunately, and I was sorely disappointed by this, the high-end was too strong and even harsh across the board on almost all these recordings. I felt listening fatigue beginning very soon, and was in each case relieved to return to my Luxman sound.

Mind you, all of these descriptive terms look exaggerated, as the differences were overall subtle.

The Leben has a bass tone control, but none for the high treble. If it had, and if I were able to reduce the subtly harsh effect, I would probably have taken it home, because other than the high end it sounded so good.

I am suspect a part of this judgment might be from being habituated to the familiar Luxman in my home, and also that I have some ear damage left over from wilder days that rings uncomfortably when high pitches are harsh at all. However, I can easily imagine that for many Americans used to listening to harder, harsher systems, as the shop guy described, the Leben would sound like comforting silk.

I would be very interested in hearing about your own listening experience with the little Leben gem, if you would be so kind.

Jimbo

Many thanks for the update Jimbo!

Congratulations on setting-up the 805s - enjoy!

Regards,

Mark

Mark Toronto, Chashas1, and all: Luxman amps vs Leben, and Luxman CD players...

I just got back from the shop with some heavy stands for my new B&W 805s as second speakers, as well as some nice marble slabs to put between them and the tatami mat floor.

I talked with the main guy regarding his opinion about how Luxman C-5 and C-6 cd players are perceived in Japan. He thinks that they are not preferred by younger people, but are so by older listeners, because they have the "sweet and mellow" (his words) sound characteristic of Luxman (he calls it "The Luxman sound"), whereas younger Japanese people often prefer harsher, more powerful and trebly rendering.

I also asked him for some thoughts about my Primaluna Prologue Two, which has disappointed me because on the one hand it gets such rave reviews from so many online audiophile sites, yet to my ears and my wife's it is not better than my old, plain, not famous Luxman 507; in fact, it sounds more obviously distorted and even harsh sometimes to us. My trial period with it ends on Jan 20, and so I have to decide whether to give it up or not soon.

He explained that the Primaluna line, like the Leben, represent MODERN tube sound, and that they are excellent values for that type of amp. He thinks American ears are attuned to harsh and overly powerful amps and sound systems, often based on transistor amps that he considers basically "bad," so that when an American hears clear sounds through tubes like the Primaluna or Leben, we are enthralled by it in comparison. In reality, those amps are not necessarily better-sounding than many old tube amps and integrateds, but in comparison to the harsher stuff we're used to, they sound great. This made some sense to me in the context of all the old collectible stuff in his shop.

Chashas1, before you read my short blurb on it let me qualify my words by pointing out that I am no expert in this at all, just a novice and beginner in audio, and am only offering what my own ears told me. I am a bit older than many in here I imagine, and have heard lots over the years, though.

I had brought my Luxman 507 to the shop to compare to the Leben CS300X. I played a range of music on CDs from a LINN Magik-CD, output through some Diatone speakers, only because there were no others even close in type to my Yammies that day. The shop has a super-fast turnover rate.

The CDs I had included (of course) Miles's "Simply Blue," some drum-and-bass-loaded Brazilllian Samba, a string quartet by Wagner, Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture (complete with explosions on the crescendo!), Ella Fitzgerald with Louis Armstrong, Sade, Jimi Hendrix, Arethra Franklin, Maria Callas, Ravi Shankar, and some great whiney, nasal, banging-and-clanging Chinese Opera.

I played about 1 minute of one item, then switched amps and listend to the same sequence, then went to the next item.

The Leben was definitely even more clear and detailed than the already clear Luxman. On the faster stuff like Aretha, Jimi, and the Brazillians, the Leben was "punchier" and "more energetic." (I am sorry that I don't know standard vocal to describe these things, and hope you can grasp what I mean to convey). Over the range from mid-bass through upper-midrange, the Leben gave a somewhat wider staging presentation with subtly more clearly-defined imagined. Unfortunately, and I was sorely disappointed by this, the high-end was too strong and even harsh across the board on almost all these recordings. I felt listening fatigue beginning very soon, and was in each case relieved to return to my Luxman sound.

Mind you, all of these descriptive terms look exaggerated, as the differences were overall subtle.

The Leben has a bass tone control, but none for the high treble. If it had, and if I were able to reduce the subtly harsh effect, I would probably have taken it home, because other than the high end it sounded so good.

I am suspect a part of this judgment might be from being habituated to the familiar Luxman in my home, and also that I have some ear damage left over from wilder days that rings uncomfortably when high pitches are harsh at all. However, I can easily imagine that for many Americans used to listening to harder, harsher systems, as the shop guy described, the Leben would sound like comforting silk.

I would be very interested in hearing about your own listening experience with the little Leben gem, if you would be so kind.

Jimbo

Jimbo, thanks for taking the time to write that. Your opinions are just as valid to me as from any on here.

I've only heard the Leben with the new Zu Essence. And while as good as it was, it may not have been the best matchup. I think the Zu's needed more power to control the bass. That being said, the mids were very lifelike, so voices were beginning to take on that elusive quality we look for. The highs were fine, not harsh, yet with the new Zu ribbon tweeter I can't really comment, I haven't heard a ribbon tweeter in years. It was nonfatiguing, however.

I hope to hear the Leben soon with a smaller, high efficient speaker. I'm not sure if I'd describe it as "modern" sounding, though. Mr Hyodo isn't exactly young!
And the Leben is far better known and popular in other countries than the States. They seem like great products, so I hope they catch on. It's also nice to see the rebirth of the Luxmans here. They had a tough time from their past distributors.

It sounds like you have an amp that matches your speakers well, at least for your tastes, so you should be very happy. I laughed, for I vaguely remember your speakers, and I always thought they were bright! So, one could speculate the Leben was only showing that to be true, and the Luxman works because it's warmer?
Thanks again
Chas

Hi Chashas1: Unfortunately I haven't heard the Leben with my own speakers (Yamaha NS1000X + B&W 805N), just at the shop through icky Diatones.

But I did compare the Leben against my own amp, and in that comparison the Leben's highs were slightly harsh and fatiguing, while the Luxman's were not. This tells me that the Leben would probably still be more harsh with my other components compared to the Luxman.

Yes, my Yammies are bright, but crystal clear and superior to us to all other top-end speakers we've heard, except Quad ESL 989's, which are something entirely different. As you said, the warmth of my Luxman amp, but also the soft, absorbing room they are in, probably does a lot to balance the hard tendency of the Yammies. I imagine I might not like them as much in a hard room.

I doubt whether Mr. Hyodo's age restricts him in any way to design amps that are in keeping with older sound style. He is obviously quite competent, and able to follow (or lead, rather) modern sound trends. I agreed with the main guy in the shop that the Leben style sounded more like a Prima luna (but MUCH better!) in style than like an old-style tube amp.

I'm going back to the shop today to borrow another amp while I send my beloved Luxman 507 off to the amp hospital for a general check-up and possible minor surgery. Have to keep the old lady healthy!