Luxman L505u . . . why not?

Luxman vs Leben, Round 2: (Leben gets KO'd by a third tube amp)

This time I took wifey with me for a 3-hour listening session, to make use of her cleaner ears (she plays several musical instruments with subtlety and grace), practicality ,and frugality, while appeasing her at the same time so I can buy the equipment I like with less flack….

My main object was to ascertain whether the sharp high notes I heard at first listening to the Leben CS300X were due to the amp or the speakers.

We set-up a Luxman 507 identical to my own and my own Ah! Njoe Tjoeb at the shop. There were again no speakers comparable to my Yamaha NS1000x available. Last time I listened to the Leben through Diatones, with negative results, so this time it was first through Theil CS2.3AW and then through Harbeth 30 monitors, both supposedly flat and neutral speakers.

Result:
First we listened to a wide-ranging collection of familiar stuff through the Luxman 507, to understand how it sounds through the two speaker sets compared to our Yammies. The Theils had much looser, sloppier bass than the Yammies, and more sharply piercing highs. The Harbeths were much softer all around than the Yammies or the Theils, with a lighter, more airy quality than either. (We weren't there to compare speakers, just to understand some characteristics of some amps, so it didn't matter that the Harbeths are bookshelves and the Theils are floorstanders.)

Then we played the same set of music through the Leben CS300x (Mullard EL84 tubes). The overall difference between the two was slight. I slightly preferred the tonal coloration of the Leben, while wifey thought the Leben "mushed sounds together" and sounded more "muffled" than the Luxman. We both agreed the Luxman 507 was a bit more clear, offering better resolution of instruments.

However, the same shrill high notes from the Leben plagued both of us through the Theils, just as they did to me through the Diatones last week, but not at all through the much softer Harbeths, and not at all from the Luxman through any of the speakers. Some violin notes and opera singer's voices were actually painful from the Leben through the Theils.

Overall we weren't deeply impressed with the the Leben.

It was obviously better overall to us than my Prima Luna Dialogue Two, pounding the final coffin nail into that amp for me, and making my mind up to return that amp to the shop next week.

While we were listening, someone bought the Leben via phone or internet. The sales guy then seemed to feel more free to introduce another amp to us, that he recommended based on what he was gathering from our likes and dislikes. He set-up an older Luxman tube amp, an SQ38FD.

THE LUXMAN SQ38FD TOTALLY BLEW THE LEBEN OUT OF THE WATER!

The difference between the Luxman SQ38FD and the Leben CS300X was like Quad ESL 989s versus Onkyo home theater stuff.

We were astonished by it. It was the first amp I've heard that was obviously more clear, had better staging and imaging, and was more natural sounding than my Luxman 507.

The SQ38FD was a wake-up call for us, showing us just how far from great the amps we had been listening are. This was definitely the best tube amp we've ever heard. However, we found every tube amp we listened to, including this wonderful old Luxman, were a bit bright and had some sharpness through most speakers. We are concerned that that sharpness might be even more shrill through the unforgiving Yammies.

In order of quality factors, we rated all the amps involved like this:

1. Luxman SQ38FD
2. Luxman 507
3. Leben CS300X
4. Prima Luna Prologue Two

We thought the Leben CS300X sounded great through the Harbeth 30 Monitors, but very different from the sound style we have grown accustomed to.

Worst case of all listening today was female vocal from the Leben through the Theils. Just awful.

Now we're not sure whether tube amps are for us, or if some SS amp will be best for our speakers and environment.
We are understanding better now what we are looking for, and it's something much closer to the overall sound qualities of the Luxman SQ38 FD, but without the occasional harsh high notes and without the tooby fuzziness we've heard in all tube amps so far.

I'll stop researching tubes at this point for now, and start looking at some SS amps before buying my next amp, which might be the Luxman SQ38FD.

Why not listen to some newer Luxman integrated's, whether it is the 505/509u or the pure class A units, the 550/590a II?

Brianmgrarcom- Thanks, that's just where I'm headed next.

First on my listening list is a Luxman 570Z, which another Yamaha NS1000x owner uses and likes. Are you familiar with these speakers or amp?

I've been told (to no end) that Luxman lost it's edge when taken over by Alpine, and vintage shops don't generally carry much post-1984 Luxman stuff. They say new models have neither the depth nor the "silkiness" of the old tube amps. I'll try to judge that for myself soon.

Also, on a budget, I'm looking for something used or very good value. These Luxman integrateds you've listed are out of my range if new. I'm hoping to keep it under USD2000, and hopefully closer to USD1000.

The Prima Luna Prologue Two and Leben CS300X were both about USD 1000 in mint used condition, while the Luxman SQ38DF goes for about about USD 1600. My old Luxman 507 goes for only about USD 600.

Still, I do intend to give these new Luxmans and lots of others a listen, especially if I can find them in a shop with clear and neutral monitors like my Yammies to listen through.

As I'm sure you can gather from my posts, I'm pretty new to this "audiophilia world" and just trying to learn enough to choose an amp I'll be really happy with for a few years.

I am not familiar with those setups, sorry. While I have followed the comments you allude to from others where Luxman was steered in aother, wrong, direction when under Alpine, it is clear that is no longer the case nor has been for some time, quite the contrary. I do have a L-590a II on order.

Lol! Jim, before you shoot yourself in the foot yet again, reread what you've written. And I say this not to defend the Leben at all- I don't own one, or Luxman, yet.
Twice now you have used the Leben with speakers you obviously don't like, the diatones and the thiels. And twice you blame it on the Leben. Before you write off the Leben, you need to use it with either the speakers you own or something very similiar. I don't know the sound of the diatones, but I've never liked thiels, at least the ones I've heard. You describe them to a t. And again I say your luxman is masking that. The top end on the Harbeth is extended yet sweet. And that's what the Leben showed.

Again, speculation only, but from what I've read, the newer Luxman gear is equal to or better than its predecessors. Even though it's not mentioned much, yet, maybe because of it's price point, 6k, the new version of the 38q is supposed to be stunning. It's odd that people are either buying the new lower priced entries or the top two expensive models. Obviously none of the new gear by Luxman is in your price area now. Is the Leben used?

Keep at it...