bi amp imrpoving?

Ngjockey wrote:

Don't see the point of using identical amps to biamp. Ya, it makes it easy but you're not taking advantage of mixing different characters. The result may be schizo but it's entertaining.

The point, at least in my case, is that biamping can get somewhat more and better sound out of the speakers, as compared with single-amping.

[My case: 88dB, 48" tall dynamic/reflex 3-ways having paired 6.5" woofers, in a mid-sized room, where the amps in question are a pair of 400w monoblocks (top) plus a 500wpc stereo amp (bottom) from the same (audiophile-quality) manufacturer, each with power supplies and SS output sections which are sufficiently beefy on their own. As you can see, a relatively modestly-scaled setup where there was certainly never any putative power deficit without biamping, yet improvements were still there to be had with it.]

My guess is that you and I are probably just after different things, sonically speaking, and/or may have very different kinds of speakers. I also find that doubling-up on physically more managable, more affordable (but good-sounding) amps is an easier way to go for increased power than jettisoning them in favor of much pricier and difficult to deal with gargantuan tanks.

Almarg wrote:

Under typical circumstances, passively biamping two 50 watt amplifiers will result in little more than the equivalent of a single 50 watt amplifier, in terms of the peak volume level that can be generated.

At the risk of repeating myself or seeming a jerk, IMHO the peak volume level that can be generated is largely beside the point. (And in any event that is, as you suggested, not only a function of amp power but also speakers and room, any and all of which may limit the max level. Conversely, where distortion isn't perceived as a negative, ear-splitting levels can be acheived with relatively "low" wattage, as proved by my 40w Fender Super Reverb 4 x 10" tube guitar amp.) In the scenario you describe, I would expect distinct sonic improvements at typical room-filling listening levels to be not only possible but entirely probable.

At the risk of repeating myself or seeming a jerk, IMHO the peak volume level that can be generated is largely beside the point.... Where distortion isn't perceived as a negative, ear-splitting levels can be achieved with relatively "low" wattage, as proved by my 40w Fender Super Reverb 4 x 10" tube guitar amp.)

That is true if the music has little dynamic range (meaning the difference in volume between the loudest notes and the softest notes). Most rock recordings fall into that category.

However, for music with wide dynamic range, such as well recorded, minimally compressed classical symphony orchestra, peak volume capability is most definitely not beside the point. On that kind of recording, power requirements for brief peaks can often be literally 1000 times or more as many watts as for the average volume level within the same work, which would correspond to a peak-to-average ratio of 30db.

Best regards,
-- Al

Sorry Al, I suppose I worded that poorly. I didn't mean that max volume levels are prima-facie beside the point -- I'm a big believer that realistic volume levels, and good sound at those levels, are required for convincing reproduction. (In fact I termed a phrase I call "absolute volume distortion" to describe listening at unrealistically loud or soft levels -- we all do it, but it's a form of playback distortion just the same). I meant that a relatively small potential increase in max volume capability (as you pointed out) is not the main reason for biamping, at least not for me. And lest my Fender amp analogy lead you to think I'm insensitive to uncompressed acoustic music's dynamic range, although I do listen to a lot of electric rock (a lot of it pretty lo-fi at that), and maintaining image independence within a group or massed context at high levels is important to me, in my view a critical test of whether additional power actually benefits a system's natural fidelity would not only be acoustic, but something like solo piano, or even solo acoustic guitar (a relatively quiet instrument at realistic volume settings, but one with which I am intimately familiar) and/or voice. If you screw these things up rather than making progress, then the ability to crank a little more in the bass is worthless to me. Besides which, now you've started making my argument for me! ;^)

We're not so different. You're preaching to the choir. I'm currently biamping with dual bridged Plinius SA-100's and a 1600W bass amp with separate active low and high pass filters. Don't ask how much that totals. Before that, I passive biamped Kappa8's from Mission 777's for the bass and Monarchy SE-100's for the mid/treble. Entirely different ages, characters, gain and feedback, despite both having the same wattage rating and being MOSFET. DIY'd a custom attenuator and got the best out of both. Going active could have been even better but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. That's just my own stuff. I've put together some wacky and extremely loud combinations for others.

Would I recommend biamping to the OP, after the way he phrased his post? NO. It was far too vague to indicate that he comprehends what he's getting into. Had he supplied some specifics or given any clue as to his competence, I would have been glad to assist. Maybe, I've just seen too many biamp threads.

Hi Ngjockey, in reference to your response, one of the reasons I go with very similar amplifiers (having basically the same gain) is that I prefer not to have to introduce outboard attenuators into the system, in addition to wanting as uniform sound as possible with seamless transitions between drivers. (I also use the same power cords and interconnects all around in addition to identical speaker cables.) I don't know from personal experience if this is as critical with an active outboard crossover (I do know that some have found it to be so), but as far as I can see I'm probably gonna stay 'passive' and never try going that route, for some of the reasons (among others) mentioned by various posters above. Not that I doubt the benefits of active multi-amping if done properly -- in fact, I've always found it somewhat surprising that there haven't been more high-end manufacturers designing complete integrated crossover/amp/speaker systems where each driver gets its own dedicated amplifier.