Audio Research Preamp Experts?

Well my direct comparison between the REF 3, SP-11 retubed and SP 16 and other AR preamps were very revealing. I did not play with tube rolling or change cables, etc. I simply listened to music with one unit, unplugged it and connected the other and listened to the same music. The SP-11 (retubed mind you, with AR supplied tubes) was wayyyyy better than the the SP-16. It was not even close. I would even classify the Sp-16 as being a lower high-end or upper mid fi pre-amp. I'm not kidding. It wasn't close. However, the SP-11 was close to the REF 3 to the point where I seriously questioned buying the REF 3. The REF 3 was better, don't get me wrong, but the price difference, wellll, was it worth doing it. In my opinion, it was! I find myself no wanting to stop listening. However, I sold my SP-11 for around $2,300 and that was a fair price. So, whom ever is listing an SP-11 for $5,000 or even over $3,000 is asking way too much.

I have not heard a direct comparison between the SP-11 and the SP-15, but people who's opinion I respect tell me the SP-15 is on the same level as the SP-11 MK II.

enjoy

Minor, what is the rest of your system you are auditioning ARC pre-amps with?

I've heard a lot of high end systems and I am quite pleased with the sp16 in most every regard. What specifically did you hear different between it and other more expensive ARC pre-amps?

Wow. Great question. My system consist of, Sota Star Saphire TT, with SME IV arm and Blackbird cartridge into an AR PH-3 phone stage, AR REF 3 pre-amp, McIntosh Labs MS 300 music server into a Theta DSPro Gen II DAC, Pereaux TU-1 Tuner, Pioneer Elite DV-09 DVD/CD player into a Theta DSP Gen V DAC, Martin Logan Monolith IIIX electronic crossover, into a Mark Levinson ML-3 amp for the bass drivers of my ML Monolith IIIX speakers and either 1) Audio Research VTM 120 Mono Amps or my Mark Levinson 23.5 Amp driving the upper panels of the Martin Logan Monolith IIIX speakers. Cables are MIT, XLO, Transparent, Canare, etc. Also, for the naysayers, the Pioneer Elite DV-09 is in my opinion one of the best transports I have ever heard and I have heard some really good ones. It is built like a tank, really, seriously overbuilt, vacumed sealed and compared to the seven (really!)cd player/transports that I have listened to into the DAC, it blew each and every one of them away.

Now to the sound of the SP-16 compared to the SP-11. The SP-16 was constrained, not open, soundstage was small, bass was not good. Sorry, but my audiophile vocabulary is lacking. When I played, Eva Cassidy or Marilyn Scott, or Pat Metheny, etc. on the SP-11 and then played the same on the SP-16, it was the biggest difference I have ever heard in comparisons. Also, my when I was speaking with my Dealer about possibly getting a remote controlled pre-amp to replace my SP-11 (possibly) he told me that the SP-16 would be close. He later admitted that he forgot that the SP-11 was the top-of-the line AR pre-amp of the time and that the Sp-16 was basically AR's entry level pre-amp. Fortunatly, his store routinely allows me to take equipment home for a week at a time and audition before I buy. I kept coming back to the REF 3. It was really smooth.

enjoy

minor, thanks for that.

i'll go out on a limb and suppose that my ohm speakers may compensate for any deficiencies in imaging and soundstage that might occur with the lower end sp16 compared to higher models. the ohms are champs in this regard with most any amplification.

i have also used mit ics but now run dnm reson ics which i find superior in most every regard and really delivers results that just sound right.

there are many ways to achieve a certain level of performance. areally good pre in general can only help. i think the arc gear in general is a fantastic one to build a system around.

It depends on your amps and your pre-amp actually. I have found that some equipment is very forgiving as opposed to others. The SP-11 in my opinion was very forgiving of bad recordings. (I didn't know they were bad until I got the REF 3). Now several of my recordings are absolutely terrible sounding because the REF 3 revealed just how bad the recording process was. I would never have thought that were true. When you get a chance and you leave your wallet at home. Take a week long listen to a REF 3. you will really enjoy the experience.

enjoy.