solid state vs tubes

mapman:

i heard avalon ascent and eclipse sound quite good with rowland and audio research ss amps. i've also heard them sound great with tubes.

in my opinion, the issue of ss vs tubes is more critical when the speaker is an electrostatic, ribbon, or planar magnetic.

i have heard vandersteen 2s sound "good" with ss and tube amps.

there are probably other acoustic suspension designs that can perform well with amps of either type.

i have not heard a panel sound as well with a ss amp as with a good tube amp.

i am trying to go cheap and am considering the khartago (odyssey) and vincent hybrid 331. i would like to audition them before buying, if possible.

since both are under $1000, i might take a chance.

MrT.,

yes, no doubt either might sound good with any good speaker design, not just electrostatic.

What I was wondering was do two different amps, much less a SS and a tube amp, ever sound the same. They can sound different and both good in different ways. That's different than sounding "the same".

If any two amps sound the same, then I suspect in most cases the speakers may be the limiting factors. I would expect most high end speakers to not sound the same with two different good amps, even if both were tube or SS, but even more so if one is tube and one is SS.

Unless of course Bob carver or equivalent designed the two to sound the same up front.

So to sum up, bottom line to me is that it is possible to get two amps to sound the same or at least so close the differences are negligible, but this is not likely to be the case in practice, especially if one amp uses tubes and the other transistors.

a hybrid amp--having a tube input stage and ss output stage which is both a tube and solid state amp, has a chance to sound very close to a pure ss or tube amp, by virtue of the ability to alter tube types, may be the answer.

having the versatility of varying tube manufacture could create a more tube like or ss like sound, perhaps creating a sound that is so close to either a pure tube or ss amp, that differences are barely detectable.

mapman, regarding your last point, there was a sss designer, a college professor who designed a ss amp with greater amounts of 2nd and 4th order harmonic distortion, mimicking the sound of a tube amp by creating the pscho acoustic affect of dempahzing treble response. i heard it several years ago at ces. when i can remember the brand name, i will divulge it.

i wrote about this amp, in my review of the ces show at that time.

my point is that like carver, a manufacturer who understands both tube and solid state design and performance could incorporate in a ss amp those features which could create the type of amp i am looking for.

i don't think designers deliberately wish to incorporate coloration, so i will agree that ss and tube amps, will reveal differences , as you have stated which will be recognizable.

personally, i may be willing to accept a solid state amp which can sound pleasant in the treble, yet incorporate greater extension and resolution, so long as it doesn't drive me out of the room. this condition is very subjective.

i would like to keep cost as low as possible and as i indicated would like to audition the odysssey khartago and vincent 331, which is a hybrid amp.

i compliment you on your reasonableness and realistic perspective regarding this issue.

its so basic in audio, that i suspect there is no definitive answer, rather one which one can generate confidence and principles to guide ones personal selection of a particular amp.

i have learned to give up some of my unrealistic desires regarding sound and adopt a more flexible approach.such an approach will allow me to expand my willingness to consider products which i would have not considered years ago.

my stereo system no longer evinces a dark and syrupy sound which i espoused in the past. i have learned to accept a certain level of detail, so long as frequency response is truly balanced.

When considering my latest amp purchase, I strongly considered an ARC SS amp in that I was very impressed with the sound of the sp16 pre-amp and I did not find it to sound overtly "tubey". HAving heard ARC tube gear but not SS, based on what I read doing research, my expectation was that the ARC SS amps would retain the basic house sound which I liked to a good degree. I ended up going Class D instead, mainly foe ergonomic reasons. If the BC refs didn't work out, going with a well received SS amp by a reknowned company like ARC would have likely been my next try. Their SS amp specs certainly indicate that in general they are designed to work with tube pre-amps well.