ARC-Ref210 vs ARC-Ref610T at medium levels ??

Unhappily, even at medium listening levels the Ref 610T sounds better than the 210.

There is a sense of fluidity, "easiness" and scale associated to the 610T that does not show in the 210.

I once heard the 610T with Magico Mini2 and it was hard to believe that such small speakers could generate such a large and involving soundstage, at the same time detailed and integrated. The 210s can not fully create this effect.

Hi Microstrip, thanks for the information (although it could cost me a lot of money)...

Ozatschek, there is a huge difference in the day to day operation in heat and expense between the 610s and the 210s and still a good sized difference between the 210s and the 110.

I assume you have thought about the amount of heat two Ref 610t amps put out and the cost of operation when they need retubing? I have Ref 210s and a Ref 110 and the 210s put out more that twice the heat of a 110 - there are more than twice the tubes. I my room is not small (17x27x10 feet) the 210s will raise the temp by 3 or 4 degrees and another 1 or 2 if I am listening at loud levels. Plus I retubed the 210s from ARC and it ran about $1,800 w/shipping. I don't know what it costs to retube the 610ts but I think it is at least $4.5K given the number of 6550 tubes needed. If I used only the 210s, I would need to retube every year and a half to two years.

As for differences in sound, I just placed the 210s back in service after using the 110 for 3-4 months and I like the 210s better on my Vandersteen 5As. For me its more about slightly different flavors than a clear winner but the 210s play louder and have more punch.

Do a search for davemitchell in the amp/pre forums. He has several great posts on ARC amps. He disclosed he was an ARC dealer and I found his comments on ARC VTM200s and Ref 210s amps that I have had to be on point. I am not in total agreement with the 210s vs 110, at least not with Vandy 5As but that could change with other speakers since the 110 is little more tubey sounding. I would email Dave if I were you.

FWIW, I recall running accross some desenting opinions on the previous Ref 600 series amps. Obviously there is more power for though loads. But I recall some wondering if there are issues getting that many output tubes to work togeather.

Good luck, Terry

My opinion is not to get the big amps unless you really, REALLY, R-E-A-L-L-Y need the power. The cost difference would be much better spent on a Tripoint Troy, great power cables, and a great preamp. These supplementary components would give you far greater benefit. Many people over spend on a single component and do not optimize. Plus, all those tubes are a big can of worms.

I actually owned the 610t's and Ref600 MK2's paired up ARC REF3 pre driving Avalon Isis, I also had VTL 750's in that same system paired up with a 7.5 pre.

I have heard the 210's but never in my own set-up.

I enjoyed all the above pces mentioned and never had any issues.

You are going to have hear for your self to decide but what I liked was when listening with any of those amps I mentioned when there were swings "dynamics etc. even when listening at lower volumns always offered the effect of startling you" Tubes are different than solid state and will come down to a personal preference, yes tubes are more maintenace but can offer you sonics that no solid state amp I have had in my set-up or heard offer such.

I'm personally looking forward to hearing the VAC Statement 450 mono's paired up with my MBL's.