ARC-Ref210 vs ARC-Ref610T at medium levels ??


Hi, I am planning to upgrade my ARC Monos to a high-end model. I already decided to go for a new model, meaning the Ref-210 or the Ref-610T (and not the old Ref-300s or Ref-600s).

I would like to know if someone who had a chance to compare the Ref-210 and the Ref-610T amps could give me feedback about the sonic differences at medium levels.

I am aware of the other differencies between these two models (price, size, weight, power consumption, max output power, number of tubes,...).

I would like to ONLY know how they differ in terms of sonic QUALITY at MEDIUM listening levels in a medium sized listening room of about 400 sqft (and yes, you're right - in terms of max output level I do NOT need the 610T).
The other components are all high-level quality, so if there are sonic differencies I would profit from them.

I want to get a feeling if there is a significant difference in terms of quality of sound, and if there is any - is it worth the double price?

I do hear most styles of music (classic, rock, 70s-90s, only some jazz,...), so my question is not related to a special type of music.

Thanks in advance to everybody who might answer!
ozatschek
Ozatschek, there is a huge difference in the day to day operation in heat and expense between the 610s and the 210s and still a good sized difference between the 210s and the 110.

I assume you have thought about the amount of heat two Ref 610t amps put out and the cost of operation when they need retubing? I have Ref 210s and a Ref 110 and the 210s put out more that twice the heat of a 110 - there are more than twice the tubes. I my room is not small (17x27x10 feet) the 210s will raise the temp by 3 or 4 degrees and another 1 or 2 if I am listening at loud levels. Plus I retubed the 210s from ARC and it ran about $1,800 w/shipping. I don't know what it costs to retube the 610ts but I think it is at least $4.5K given the number of 6550 tubes needed. If I used only the 210s, I would need to retube every year and a half to two years.

As for differences in sound, I just placed the 210s back in service after using the 110 for 3-4 months and I like the 210s better on my Vandersteen 5As. For me its more about slightly different flavors than a clear winner but the 210s play louder and have more punch.

Do a search for davemitchell in the amp/pre forums. He has several great posts on ARC amps. He disclosed he was an ARC dealer and I found his comments on ARC VTM200s and Ref 210s amps that I have had to be on point. I am not in total agreement with the 210s vs 110, at least not with Vandy 5As but that could change with other speakers since the 110 is little more tubey sounding. I would email Dave if I were you.

FWIW, I recall running accross some desenting opinions on the previous Ref 600 series amps. Obviously there is more power for though loads. But I recall some wondering if there are issues getting that many output tubes to work togeather.

Good luck, Terry
My opinion is not to get the big amps unless you really, REALLY, R-E-A-L-L-Y need the power. The cost difference would be much better spent on a Tripoint Troy, great power cables, and a great preamp. These supplementary components would give you far greater benefit. Many people over spend on a single component and do not optimize. Plus, all those tubes are a big can of worms.
I actually owned the 610t's and Ref600 MK2's paired up ARC REF3 pre driving Avalon Isis, I also had VTL 750's in that same system paired up with a 7.5 pre.

I have heard the 210's but never in my own set-up.

I enjoyed all the above pces mentioned and never had any issues.

You are going to have hear for your self to decide but what I liked was when listening with any of those amps I mentioned when there were swings "dynamics etc. even when listening at lower volumns always offered the effect of startling you" Tubes are different than solid state and will come down to a personal preference, yes tubes are more maintenace but can offer you sonics that no solid state amp I have had in my set-up or heard offer such.

I'm personally looking forward to hearing the VAC Statement 450 mono's paired up with my MBL's.
Hi Dev, did you order the new VAC amp? Does the siren song of a mega tube amp beckon once again?
Hi Tdaudio,
thanks for your input. You are right - so many tubes are a heating source. Since my listening room is downstaires in the basement it tends to be (too) cool anyway, so a few degrees more might be welcome... Nevertheless for all the other reasons I tend to go for the 210 anyway, accepting that the 610 might be slightly better,
as long as they are not dramatically better (especially at low/medium levels). But I will check Dave's opinion on that topic as well.

Hi Dev,
thanks as well for sharing your personal experience. It is good to hear that all these components are great (and reliable). This is why I am stuck with ARC - I like the sound, and all pieces I have owned during the upgrade cycles have been really good - and I too never had any issue with one of them. The only question remaining is: which one is best? I have a Ref-5 preamp at home since last weekend and could compare it with my Ref-2MkII in identical environments. And although the Ref-5 is clearly the better one, I have to admit the also the Ref2 is a
really great preamp still!