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how close in sound can a tube and ss amp sound ?

i have observed threads requesting advice regarding tube sounding solid state amps, within a price point.

i wonder how to confirm such a request.

in addition to recommendations, what about comparing a particular ss amp to a particular tube amp using an experimental design where bias, or preconception has been eliminated ?

has anyone tested the hypothesis that he/she cannot detect the difference between a tube and a ss amp, within the same power range, price point and minimizing interaction problems, such as impedeance mismatches ?

on the other hand if someone is seeking a tube-like sound out of a solid state amp, i would assume that one would use a "classic" sounding tube amp, e.g., cj mv 45, cj 75, cj 100, or cj mv125 as the tube amp and try to find a ss amp that is indistinguishable from the sound of the classic tube amp.

i have found that many ss amps differ with respect to bass and treble response from many tube amps.

in my own case, i would love to find a 120 watt ss amp which sounds like my vtl tube amp. unfortunately, i am not optimistic.

in other threads, some people have stated that it is impossible to find a ss amp that is "tube-like", in the classic sense.
mrtennis
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,807 posts
 
Yup!

All you have to do is clip the amp and you will know the difference between tube and transistor. That's the tip of the iceberg and the rest is already well 'documented'.

You will find many transistor amps that are lauded as having 'tube-like' qualities. But so far no-one is acknowledged as having found a means of causing a transistor amp to actually sound like a tube amp.

The bottom line is quite simple: if you want the sound of transistors don't get a tube amp and if you want the sound of tubes don't get a transistor amp.

Much discussion could ensue but that will be the gist of it.
auxetophone
114 posts
 
"But so far no-one is acknowledged as having found a means of causing a transistor amp to actually sound like a tube amp."

I agree for the most part, but see The Carver Challenge for an exception.

I believe Carver marketed an amp based on results of this challenge, but that seems to be the end of it.
raquel
841 posts
 
Agreement. My Rowland Model 6's sounded, and my darTZeel sounds, quite similar to my VAC Renaissance amps, but not identical. There are strengths to each design.

I should also add that my darTZeel has not been retrofitted for the improved biasing circuit that is now available for it, so it's not being run optimally, and since we're doing comparisons, the Rowland, while excellent, is not the equal of the darTZeel.
wilsynet's avatar
wilsynet
264 posts
 
I don't think it's commonly agreed what a tube amplifier sounds like anyway. To say that you want a solid state amplifier to sound like a tube amplifier, well, what kind of tube amplifier and in what way?

In broad generalizations, an OTL does not sound like a SET does not sound like a Push Pull. Same with EL-34 versus EL-84, or 45 versus 2A3 versus 300B versus 845. Tube amplifiers are variously described as being euphonic, transparent, warm, extended, rolled off.

In my (albeit) limited experience, "dimensionality" and especially "fatigue free" seem to be hallmarks of what a (very) good tube amplifier will do that most solid state implementations find challenging without some other compromise.

Wilson
peterayer
1,382 posts
 
"Sounds like" or "sounds the same" are phrases often used interchangeably here, when in fact they are quite different. IME, the former is possible on very rare occasion while the latter is not, at least not yet.

I have owned many of the Class A Pass amps, both Aleph and X.5. From that perspective, on a few occasions when hearing a new system and not first looking at the components, I have been hard pressed to identify the type of amp playing.

I have heard very good SS and very good tube amps sound similar and pretty convincing. To answer the OP, I think they can sound fairly close, but not the same.
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