Very few people compare amplifers based on clipping.
It's irrelevant.
It's irrelevant.
how close in sound can a tube and ss amp sound ?
i have observed threads requesting advice regarding tube sounding solid state amps, within a price point.
i wonder how to confirm such a request.
in addition to recommendations, what about comparing a particular ss amp to a particular tube amp using an experimental design where bias, or preconception has been eliminated ?
has anyone tested the hypothesis that he/she cannot detect the difference between a tube and a ss amp, within the same power range, price point and minimizing interaction problems, such as impedeance mismatches ?
on the other hand if someone is seeking a tube-like sound out of a solid state amp, i would assume that one would use a "classic" sounding tube amp, e.g., cj mv 45, cj 75, cj 100, or cj mv125 as the tube amp and try to find a ss amp that is indistinguishable from the sound of the classic tube amp.
i have found that many ss amps differ with respect to bass and treble response from many tube amps.
in my own case, i would love to find a 120 watt ss amp which sounds like my vtl tube amp. unfortunately, i am not optimistic.
in other threads, some people have stated that it is impossible to find a ss amp that is "tube-like", in the classic sense.
i wonder how to confirm such a request.
in addition to recommendations, what about comparing a particular ss amp to a particular tube amp using an experimental design where bias, or preconception has been eliminated ?
has anyone tested the hypothesis that he/she cannot detect the difference between a tube and a ss amp, within the same power range, price point and minimizing interaction problems, such as impedeance mismatches ?
on the other hand if someone is seeking a tube-like sound out of a solid state amp, i would assume that one would use a "classic" sounding tube amp, e.g., cj mv 45, cj 75, cj 100, or cj mv125 as the tube amp and try to find a ss amp that is indistinguishable from the sound of the classic tube amp.
i have found that many ss amps differ with respect to bass and treble response from many tube amps.
in my own case, i would love to find a 120 watt ss amp which sounds like my vtl tube amp. unfortunately, i am not optimistic.
in other threads, some people have stated that it is impossible to find a ss amp that is "tube-like", in the classic sense.
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- 55 posts total
Audiofeil, my point is that many people indeed *do* compare clipping behaviors, only thing is, they don't know that that is what they are doing. Clipping can occur without the amplifier being outright distorted. Tubes have a much more graceful clipping behavior, which accounts for the idea that we have all seen before that 'tube watts' seem to be more powerful than 'transistor watts'. Mr. Tennis, the range that you are talking about is the realm of the odd-ordered harmonics that I mentioned earlier. It is very challenging to build a transistor amplifier that does not produce a coloration at these frequencies, due to the way our hearing perception works. On paper you will find almost any transistor amp compared to almost any tube amplifier to be perfectly flat in this region. IOW, we hear distortion as tonal coloration. That is why two amps can measure flat and sound so different. Now there is another reason, read this: http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html Quads are a Power Paradigm technology, which means if you used a Voltage Paradigm technology (most transistors) on them, you will get a tonal anomaly, in this case brightness. |
my comments regarding the problematic nature of ss amps in the range 1000 hz to 5000 hz is not a function of power rating, or speaker--power requirements. i agree with ralph's explantion concerning odd order harmonics. i wonder if it would be possible to design a ss amp which doesn't exhibit the behavior i mentioned. atr there any examples ? |
Audiofeil, my point is that during that comparison, no-one is thinking that they are comparing amps that are clipping. They don't know that that is what is happening. If you have a speaker that is 89 db and a 35 watt amp, depending on room size and listening habits, **inaudible** clipping could be going on a lot. The effect of inaudible clipping could be a change in tonality before outright clipping is detected by the listener. Or it could be perceived as compression, perhaps a strained quality of the amplifier during complex passages. It depends on how the amp is built, how robust the power supplies are, that sort of thing. Mr. Tennis, I did give one example earlier- the Nelson Pass First Watt. Another would be the Ridley Audio amplifier. Last I heard that one was over $100,000. I might have mentioned this before too- making a transistor amp that does not distort odd ordered harmonics is not easy. |
- 55 posts total