Natural and Neutral could be boring ..


Hello Guys,

First .. Happy New Year to everyOne!

Building my hi-fi setup I have always searched for "Natural & Neutral" sound and so I have added every piece of my rig thinking and searching in this direction...
Yesterday night , during a listening session , I was thinking about this and theoretically I couldn't be happier about the result

Here my gears:

The loved phono section:

TW Acustic Raven One
Graham Phantom MKII / IC70
Benz LP
Whest Audio PS30 RDT SE
Mogami Neglex balanced to the preamp

The not so loved CD rom session:

Philips CDD 882 (transport)
Philips DAC 960 (converter)
Mogami Neglex balanced to the preamp

Pass Labs X1
Parasound Halo JC1's
IC cables Mogami Neglex balanced

Thiel CS 2.4
Speaker cables Cardas Golden Reference

My room is quite a large room (36 ft. x 20 ft. 10ft. high) and Thiels are pratically in open air :-)) 7,5 ft. from the wall and more from side walls.

Well , I think to have reached an hi-fi setup that sounds pratically Natural and Neutral .. maybe not the 100% but IMHO I'm not far from that.
Yesterday night I was philosophize with myself , during a relaxing listening session , about how much could be boring this Natural & Neutral research.
It's true .. by a large majority .. the Audiophiles are searching for this result .. "Natural & Neutral" .. and the end justifies the means.
But when you get this or you're almost near .. the pleasure is only perceived or obtained by the software .. aka LP's or CD-rom's .. aka Music.
And sometimes the Music could be boring ...
So which is the solution?
Sincerely I dunno .. probably it's into the Tube world that's is often on the romantic side .. even at neutral and natural cost
I have been a great Tube fan some years ago when I had Jadis JA 80 and Klimo preamp .. I sold them when I decided to try Solid State and probably that was a pity!
Now I don't want to re-change all my hi-fi setup buying all tubes .. further I should be compelled to sell my Thiels too
But I could try adding a Tube Preamp .. just to aromatize the rest .. this could be a good idea .. isn't it?

But which tube preamp?
There are lotsa tube preamps that strive for the Neutral and Natural side .. I'm thinking to ARC , CJ , BAT etc.. and I don't need one of them .. I already own a very good natural and neutral preamp!

A good choice could be a Air Tight , Shindo , Supratek , Joule Electra .. but I have to pay attention to the "electrical marriage" with my two Parasound JC1's..

What do you think about my thoughts .. and any other idea about an Aromatic Tube Preamp.. Guys?
128x128curio
I can't imagine that the your system in the room you describe sounds neutral or natural. There's no way the Thiels can produce adequate bass or lower midrange to properly pressurize that room. I suspect what you hear is way too much upper midrange/treble info.

Obviously changing the electronics is not a solution. You could stick a hundred tubes into the system and it still won't sound natural. You need speakers that would work well in that specific room. I'm thinking something that can move a lot of air. You should consider the big VMPS towers, the large Legacy models, the Zu models with multiple bass drivers or the big PBN models.

I've expressed some strong opinions and there's always the possibility that I could be totally wrong, but I suggest you try the following experiment. It will cost you nothing but time and effort. Move your speakers so that they are within 1 to 2 feet of a rear wall in order to get some room reinforcement in the bass. Move your listening position such that it replicates your normal listening distance. Don't make any snap judgments. Give yourself some time to acclimate to the sound. You may have to play with the exact distance between the wall and the speaker to smooth out the bass. After you have a handle with the sound of this setup change your listening position to the wall opposite the speaker and have your head positioned within a foot or two of the wall. See how it sounds. In the end you may prefer your original setup, but the experiment will give you a glimpse of how your room will sound with the speakers coupled to the room rather than divorce from, which is your current setup.
I'm in full agreement with Onhwy61, natural and neutral should be anything but boring - adding coloration only helps if the setup is inadequate. If everything is setup right then all you need to do is crank it a little for some exhilaration. Percussion re-produced realistically is energetic & dynamic & very loud.
Definitely optimize the speaker placement in the room for bass response if not the case already.

Placement near rear wall should boost low end but may not be the only way to get a natural and neutral sound.

It is generally tougher to get it though with smaller speakers/drivers in a larger room especially if placed away from wall.

Some designs including omnis and planars may function optimally for bass as well as typical imaging and soundstage as much as a third or so into the room, but generally not too far from sidewalls.

It all really depends. You have to experiment to know for sure.

Definitely get the speaker placement optimized if not already before changing anything though...
Agree with Opus88. In real life, neutral and natural are two different things. Neutral is a audiophile concept, Natural is well, natural as in non amplified live sound.

Ideally Neutral is supposed to emulate natural but *it almost never does* in real life. Enter additive or subtractive coloration via (fill in a blank). One obvious no cost one is what Onhwy61 suggests
Nilthepill, my complements to you for saying it in a much more succinct manner than I did.