Has anybody heard the new Audio Research LS 27?

Funny I just read Ref5-SE already released, how long did that take. Same old ARC. Great marketing.

While not as bad as say Wilson, ARC could do more to protect the investment of the original owner. For instance, they could offer things like the SE "upgrade" at cost for the original owner. Or they could offer the original owner a guaranteed trade up percentage for future purchases. The only thing they did to protect their customers who bought the LS-26 was to increase the price of the LS-27 by $1000!

I've owned two pieces of ARC equipment. I respect their business savy and quality products. But until they do more to protect the customer who buys their products new, I'm afraid I'll let them take the hit when the Ref 5 becomes the Ref 5SE. What will the Ref 40 be worth if the rumored Ref 10 comes out, say for 18K, and trumps its performance? Once you get into five figure retail prices depreciation is a significant issue and can't be ignored.

The LS-27 is exactly what I'm looking for. But $7000 for a line stage is a major investment, especially since it's only worth $5000 the minute you walk out the door. And would be worth maybe $4000 when the LS-28 is annouced at or near the same retail price.

For me, ARC products only make sense used. Particularly when it's being replaced by a newer model.

Egrady, my system is all ARC, so your thread resonates with me. I agree that the only sensible way to break into the ARC product line is to buy used. That's the main way I acquired my ARC stuff.

The other way is to buy factory refurb units. The principal advantage is I know the unit is in tip top shape coming direct from ARC after a road show or whatever. Just picked up my "refurbed" PH-8 phono pre that way. Only problem going the refurb route is that you get only 15% off regular retail and you have to buy through a retail dealer, which to my mind is still not enough off and is inconvenient.

I don't know who ARC reaches out to with new products. If its the same customers who suffer from "upgrade-itis," I don't know if the "upgrade at cost" model will work for ARC because that would turn it into an "upgrade" shop which could limit profit margins. But . . . if ARC is penetrating the market by reaching new customers who are willing to pay full freight retail, then your suggestion would be be a nice courtesy to loyal "family members" like me.

A case in point is that I bought a used Ref 5 about a year or so ago. Shortly thereafter, the Ref 5 SE hit the market. The retal cost delta is $1000. However the cost for me to upgrade my Ref 5 is $2500! Now . . . as a member of the family so to speak, I would be really grateful if the upgrade cost was at cost to ARC. Maybe it is??? Who knows. Cal told me that the old Ref 5 version has to be practically remanufactured in order to bump it to SE grade.

Next to last point. The new SE version is touted to be in "another league" as compared to the "regular" Ref 5 version. Maybe it is. But I'll let you folks in on a little secret. I used to own the Ref 3 and PH-7 phono pre. Each was touted as a "major" improvement over its predecessor. IMHO, I would say that the improvement delta is measurable in the "tweak" magnitude sense -- not "in another league" magnitude.

Last few points. I just saw a used Ref 150 amp hitting the market. The ask price is $9K, which is $4K less than retail. Maybe I'll upgrade my VS-115 amp to a Ref 150 in a while, but not yet. I think my next change may be speakers, so I read member comments and learn and have some ideas. Maybe RSL ESLs (a Ralph Karsten "fave"); maybe Wilsons; maybe Magicos. Dunno yet. No rush. I'm kinda happy with my curent rig, so I will "stick" for a bit.

Has anybody compare the Audio Research SL 27 pre-amp

to a Cary Audio SLP-05 pre-amp, thanks.